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All R51 Factory Repair & Replacement Remarks

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:35 pm
Thought I would start a thread where you can post your experiences with sending in your R51 to Remington. I know a few guys on here have had to send theirs back on here. I called Remington today to have mine returned. The guy listened to several of my issues and said "More than likely they will probably just replace your gun". So we'll see. I'm curious to hear what repairs/replacement Remington has done for you on this new R51.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:00 pm
remmy,

What were some of the issues you were having? It must have pretty extensive for them to replace the whole gun.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:02 pm
ToneDeath wrote:remmy,

What were some of the issues you were having? It must have pretty extensive for them to replace the whole gun.



see my posts under the 'review' thread.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 2:42 pm
I called them, explained my problem. A half a week later I had a UPS shipping label from Rem. in my mail box. I boxed up my firearm, took it to UPS, and shipped the gun to Rem. who has it now.

I suppose I should call to check on its progress but I'm not sure what that would accomplish. :)

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 5:47 pm
You cannot tell me that this and the releasing of the not ready for prime time R51 is not related.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/0 ... n-resigns/

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:23 am
draidt wrote:You cannot tell me that this and the releasing of the not ready for prime time R51 is not related.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/0 ... n-resigns/
Yes, we can tell you that.

And it is your contention that the R51 is "not ready for prime time." So far it just appears to be standard new model growing pains. I saw the same thing in the Ruger SR22, the Taurus TCP 738, the Kel Tec PF9/P3AT/PMR30/KSG, the Ruger LCP, and a whole bunch of other new designs when first released.

Unless you can find something more than some blogger's speculation which contradicts the specific words of George Kollitides, who calls Blackwell a "great leader" and "world-class," and then laments "with sadness" the guy's departure, then, yeah, I'm going to have to be skeptical of (*ahem*) "Nick Leghorn's" "sources say."

So, yes, unless you can link the two with something more than unsubstantiated innuendo, then you're just spreading gossip.

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Kirk
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:12 pm
When I contacted Remington they said 2 weeks tops in repair-ok fine, no problem. Now I'm being told they are still figuring out the guns issues and may have to wait on new updated parts so I can plan to add 4-6 weeks. I realize this is the first year for a new model, blah blah blah but this is getting alittle ridiculous to have a new gun sent back to the factory for that long, I strongly believe that this should of never been released, it was too early, too many issues. No wonder Remington didn't want any of the media shooting this gun at SHOT. I'm surprised that there has not been a recall on this yet. I'll be shopping for a new gun this weekend and contact Remington to see if they will buy this thing back.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:42 pm
remmy wrote:When I contacted Remington they said 2 weeks tops in repair-ok fine, no problem. Now I'm being told they are still figuring out the guns issues and may have to wait on new updated parts so I can plan to add 4-6 weeks. I realize this is the first year for a new model, blah blah blah but this is getting alittle ridiculous to have a new gun sent back to the factory for that long, I strongly believe that this should of never been released, it was too early, too many issues. No wonder Remington didn't want any of the media shooting this gun at SHOT. I'm surprised that there has not been a recall on this yet. I'll be shopping for a new gun this weekend and contact Remington to see if they will buy this thing back.


When I first contacted them they indicated an 8 day turnaround time. After they had had my gun for 10 days I contacted them again, and was told that the turnaround time is 2 weeks from the time they received the gun. After 15 days I contacted them again and was told that they are waiting on "updated" internal parts before they send any returns back. It would probably be "several" more weeks.
I do not care for being an unpaid part of the research, development, and testing department for anyone.
I had fired about 300 rounds thru mine before it went back. I really like the gun, but at this time its future is unclear.
FWIW, I bought an XDs 9mm and have fired about 500, trouble free rounds thru it so far. I have also bought an XDs45, also trouble free.
The last gun (and the only gun) that gave me problems and was sent back to the manufacturer was a (K___). They had it for almost 3 months. When it did come back, I never picked it up. I traded it for a S&W revolver.
This Remington may become a target. :cry:
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:55 pm
I 100% agree with you. Good looking gun, would love to keep it and shoot it daily trouble free. I left my number for Remington to call me back so I can see about a buy back. Originally they told me they may decide to just replace my gun, but after reading what guys have to say about their new gun (several thousand R51s since mine was made) I would have to decline that offer. Thanks for the report on the xds, I'm either going to get the S&W Shield 9 or the xds 4.0. I'll report when I hear back from them. Either way I think I'm getting rid of it and maybe consider buying one after a few years production.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:55 pm
Don't get too worked up. Growing pains, sometimes even severe growing pains, are common in brand new, innovative, designs.

If you have an alternative carry piece then just let Rem do their thing as long as it takes. Better for them to fix it right.

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Kirk
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:40 pm
lklawson wrote:Don't get too worked up. Growing pains, sometimes even severe growing pains, are common in brand new, innovative, designs.

If you have an alternative carry piece then just let Rem do their thing as long as it takes. Better for them to fix it right.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk



Thank you for backing Remington for the millionth time on here assuring us that all is OK with the R51 and Remington. We get your unforgiving love for the R51. Also I don't have an alternative carry 'piece' so I would like to have a ccw to go with my ccw permit that IL just allowed by law. Turns out the R51 is not a reliable gun in that nature. How would you like to buy a brand new vehicle only to have to take it back to the dealership and leave it for 4-6 weeks, i'm sure you wouldn't be happy. Yes, I get the new model thing, but on a single issue that slipped by QC on a few guns I can understand. Not several (some serious) issues, on dozens(probably more like hundreds) of guns that should of never made it out of the factory. Still waiting on a recall announcement but I'm not holding my breath....
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:10 am
I hear what you're saying remmy. I'm getting back on track with my 'finds-n-fixes' on the 1st R51 I bought. I bought the 2nd one to use for measurements & comparisons. The 1st one is in the 2400's production range and the 2nd one is in the 3400's. I realize most people can't just go out and buy several guns at a time. Since I just retired last month, I have the time to put into this thing and maybe be of some help to Remington to help resolve the problems. There "could" be only one thing causing all these malfunctions. The Pedersen Action isn't as simple as it appears. Every action is dependent on each slide & return. For the time being, I bought a Sig Sauer P938 to carry, and I don't recommend buying an R51 yet for a CCW. I sometimes will carry my old Remington Model 51 (.380) when I need a "smooth" piece of iron in my pocket. Not a single rough or sharp edge on it. Bottom line is... this will be one fine piece for carry or just relaxation on the range punching holes in the center of the paper once the bugs are fixed.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:14 am
I recently purchased two R51's and am having problems with at least one of them.

The first one (sn in 5800's) must have been problematic prior to shipping because it was filthy when I received it so I'm assuming it received more than the two magazines of test firing that Para typically uses on their other products. I'm not overly concerned that the pistol is dirty as Im perfectly able to clean and relube it. Should a gun be shipped in this condition... No, but it's not something that I get worked up about. The weird thing was that there was quite a bit of pink powder in and around the chamber. The texture of the powder was fine and spherical like ball powder, so I'm assuming it has something to do with the ammunition being used in testing. The reason I say this unit specifically must have been problematic is there is unevenness in the finish and surface texture of the breech block. There is evidence of grinding on the right hand side to include the extractor, as though the "machinist" didn't have time to remove it prior to "hand fitting" (picture to be linked below). I have seen and handled seven examples of this model and all have displayed uneven wear on the breech block almost as though they were cast oversize and fit into each individual pistol. I'm not suggesting that someone grinds on each breech block, just saying that the wear marks I have seen on a number of examples are not consistently in the same areas. If you want to confirm it for yourself, look at all the pictures on the internet of the internals of the pistols, the silver wear spots are all over the place.

When I picked up the first pistol, I was able to select from 5 examples. All five of the pistols hesitated to some degree when cycling the slide, but some were worse than others. Initially, I noticed (by sound and feel) that the recoil spring was binding or rubbing on the inside of the frame underneath the barrel. This has shown itself in the wear marks in the anodizing with hand cycling. I wonder if there were multiple batches of recoil springs of differing diameter? All five had deformation to the front sight dovetail as a result of however the sights were drifted in, on the one I selected the chip was able to be knocked off relatively cleanly.

Neither of the two pistols I purchased have been fired since I received them, hopefully I can make time this weekend.

I have been eagerly awaiting the re-release of the 51 since it's announcement at SHOT solely for use as a suppressor host. I'm currently having doubts if that will ever come to fruition considering the current problems, but I remain hopeful. I've spoken with customer service reps at AAC, Para, and Remington about availability of threaded barrels (order number 17697) and have not been able to nail down a timeline or pricing. I have been told that the barrels will be "restricted" to use within the company however, so I'm assuming that means I may have to buy a whole new pistol rather than just a barrel for one of the two pistols I currently have. Interestingly, the first time I spoke with someone at AAC, I was told that threaded barrels for the model 51 did not exist yet. Yesterday when I spoke with AAC and after asking specifically about the example on display at the SHOT show, I was told that it was a mockup only, for demo purposes and that they had never fired it. I find that VERY hard to believe.

Reading some of the reviews and discussion of problems being encountered with the r51, one thing has stuck out. That is whether or not the reviewers have said the gun was comfortable to shoot or if it hurt their hands. I don't really care one way or the other, but has anyone looked closely at the pictures of Remington's own "super shoot" where they supposedly shot so much that an ammo run had to be made?? Just about every person shooting the pistol is wearing gloves, that has to say something.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:36 am
I almost forgot to post the pictures.

Image

Image

Image
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:01 am
Welcome to the Remington Owners Forum Gixxer !!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:53 pm
remmy wrote:Also I don't have an alternative carry 'piece'
Most experts recommend buying a firearm with a proven track record and time to shake out the "initial release bugs" as the first/primary carry piece. I would tend to echo their recommendations.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:00 pm
Gixxerpilot750 wrote:Reading some of the reviews and discussion of problems being encountered with the r51, one thing has stuck out. That is whether or not the reviewers have said the gun was comfortable to shoot or if it hurt their hands. I don't really care one way or the other, but has anyone looked closely at the pictures of Remington's own "super shoot" where they supposedly shot so much that an ammo run had to be made?? Just about every person shooting the pistol is wearing gloves, that has to say something.
FWIW, my example was quite comfortable to shoot. Felt recoil was far less than what I expected. Felt recoil is as good or better than the lightest recoiling, full sized service 9 that I've shot.

Whatever other issues it may or may not have, it's a pleasant shooter.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:29 pm
lklawson wrote:
Gixxerpilot750 wrote:FWIW, my example was quite comfortable to shoot. Felt recoil was far less than what I expected. Felt recoil is as good or better than the lightest recoiling, full sized service 9 that I've shot.

Whatever other issues it may or may not have, it's a pleasant shooter.

Kirk


I completely agree on this. I see continued parroting of TBAG's initial, confusing comments on how "painful" the gun is to shoot. I have shot a WHOLE lot of 9mm and carried (and qualified with the round) for years - the R51 is without question the softest shooting of any 9mm I've ever shot - and most of my shooting of the cartridge has been out of full sized handguns. I will allow the *possibility* that hand shape/size could play a part in things - but I'm still suspicious though. Looking at the hands of Nick (TTAG), Tim (MAC), and TacticalExistence - they are all over the map in size.

Anyhow, this issue alone is what got me spun up and incensed to begin with. Felt recoil is a subjective opinion and can't be proved or disproved. The initial criticisms of the R51 (hurts to shoot, hard to reassemble, grip safety sucks, trigger sucks, slide sucks) were all things that couldn't be proven or disproven from the git-go. That the gun actually ended up with several serious technical issues seems to doesn't help, but I still feel there was an agenda before the real problems were known. To me, it is interesting that until real problems started to surface only un-provable issues were cited as flaws wit the gun.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 5:58 pm
445r51 wrote:
lklawson wrote:
Gixxerpilot750 wrote:FWIW, my example was quite comfortable to shoot. Felt recoil was far less than what I expected. Felt recoil is as good or better than the lightest recoiling, full sized service 9 that I've shot.

Whatever other issues it may or may not have, it's a pleasant shooter.

Kirk


I completely agree on this. I see continued parroting of TBAG's initial, confusing comments on how "painful" the gun is to shoot. I have shot a WHOLE lot of 9mm and carried (and qualified with the round) for years - the R51 is without question the softest shooting of any 9mm I've ever shot - and most of my shooting of the cartridge has been out of full sized handguns. I will allow the *possibility* that hand shape/size could play a part in things - but I'm still suspicious though. Looking at the hands of Nick (TTAG), Tim (MAC), and TacticalExistence - they are all over the map in size.

Anyhow, this issue alone is what got me spun up and incensed to begin with. Felt recoil is a subjective opinion and can't be proved or disproved. The initial criticisms of the R51 (hurts to shoot, hard to reassemble, grip safety sucks, trigger sucks, slide sucks) were all things that couldn't be proven or disproven from the git-go. That the gun actually ended up with several serious technical issues seems to doesn't help, but I still feel there was an agenda before the real problems were known. To me, it is interesting that until real problems started to surface only un-provable issues were cited as flaws wit the gun.
I regret that this forum doesn't have a "like" or "thanks" button for posts.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:12 pm
lklawson wrote:
remmy wrote:Also I don't have an alternative carry 'piece'
Most experts recommend buying a firearm with a proven track record and time to shake out the "initial release bugs" as the first/primary carry piece. I would tend to echo their recommendations.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk



Not sure who you consider "most experts" or what an expert is in your mind. As far as a single stack slim 9mm (such as the R51) for ccw, not ONE has been on the market long enough to have a 'proven track record'. Now, what I consider a gun having a proven track record would be the model 1911, model 870 or the model 700 for example. Something that's been around more than a few short years. Again, a lot of what I have personally seen inside the R51 is not a 'release bug' as far as machined parts, its a poor example of an American made product. The quality, craftsmanship and the attention to detail is simply not there in the R51.....obviously. Makes you wonder how long the R51 project was in place at Remington before they shoved this thing out the door to thousands of people to trust their life with. AGAIN I don't come on this forum to intentionally bash Remington. I own quite a few of their products and happy with them. Sadly ..... the R51 was not properly tested and released, IMO of course.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:19 pm
I'll second that, the recoil is second to none and a pleasure to blow through hundreds of rounds, when its working properly that is. I never had sore hands or slide bite as others have reported. fyi
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:21 pm
remmy wrote:
lklawson wrote:
remmy wrote:Also I don't have an alternative carry 'piece'
Most experts recommend buying a firearm with a proven track record and time to shake out the "initial release bugs" as the first/primary carry piece. I would tend to echo their recommendations.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk



Not sure who you consider "most experts" or what an expert is in your mind. As far as a single stack slim 9mm (such as the R51) for ccw, not ONE has been on the market long enough to have a 'proven track record'. Now, what I consider a gun having a proven track record would be the model 1911
You're kidding me, right? You're definition of "more than a few short years" is over a century?
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:12 pm
What I'm saying HAS a proven track record is 1911s, 870s, and 700s as an example. I'm not aware of one slim single stack 9mm that's been around that long....not even CLOSE. You must be the 'expert' you were referring to. I'm no expert but I know a good product when I see one and this is FAR from that.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:09 pm
remmy wrote:What I'm saying HAS a proven track record is 1911s, 870s, and 700s as an example. I'm not aware of one slim single stack 9mm that's been around that long....not even CLOSE. You must be the 'expert' you were referring to. I'm no expert but I know a good product when I see one and this is FAR from that.
First, I'm questioning the apparent position you stated that for a design to be "proven" it must have a 100+ year track record. There are plenty of firearms, including "slim single stack 9mm," that have been around long enough to prove reliable.

Second, I'm frankly shocked that you would even question that if you're only going to buy one gun for carry duty it should be one with a proven track record, particularly as opposed to a brand new design on a newly released gun.

Tell ya what, go ask any NRA certified instructor this question: "Because I will only be buying one gun, should I buy a gun with a proven reliable track record or should I buy a gun with a brand new design, just released with less than a few month of production?"

Let me know what they say. :P
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:11 pm
Remmy, I really wanted a new R51 because I am old & have really bad wrists, but after reading all the bad posts by guys that have bought & shot them & seen videos of the same, I dropped my order with my dealer. He is a friend so it was no problem. I am too old to wait to get a gun fixed that should have been fine to start with.

I have been looking at an XDs 9 & he had a new one with the recall done so I bought it. I have to say I am very happy that I didn't get the R51 because this is one of the best small 9's I have ever had & it is perfect. I have had it to the range twice this week & not one problem in over 125 + shots. It is very accurate & the slide rack is the easiest I have had on a smaller 9. Both of my Rugers , an LC9 & an SR9c are harder to rack.

The recoil is also very light for a small 9, no more than my PPK 380. If I can post a picture I will . Also I had a Shield for about a week & I had so much trouble racking the slide I got rid of it. I have had a lot of smaller 9 mm, but this one is a winner. PM me if you want any pictures or info. This will probably get Iklawson fired up so I will finish now.
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