Had Remington left the parts inside the R51 exactly the same as the original Model 51, we wouldn't be having these problems. I've never had a malfunction with my Model 51 built in 1919. Most reliable pistol I've ever owned, or should I say, as reliable as all my best pistols & rifles. My 95 year old Model 51 is still my primary concealed carry gun, shared with my Sig Sauer P938 and my Colt 1911, depending upon where I'm going. I will, in the meantime, hang on to the two R51s I've purchased and see what Remington comes up with. I'm a bit disappointed the the R51 was addressed as "Sub-Compact". To me, it is "Compact".

Rick 51/ R51 wrote:Had Remington left the parts inside the R51 exactly the same as the original Model 51, we wouldn't be having these problems.

But would we have a 9mm+P? Or an over-stressed .380 with a cracked bolt from firing overpressure ammo? (and costing around $800-$900)

Electraclyde wrote:Would like to try some of these suggestions, but The gun I actually had for 12 days has been at Remington/Para??? for 8 weeks and 3 days now.
When/if I ever get it back again, I doubt that I will keep it. I have already replaced it with an XDs 9. Liked it so well I added an XDs 45.
I am too old to wait for any company to re-engineer a product. As the saying goes, I don't buy green banana's, I may not be around when they get ripe!

Received a refund check in the mail today from Remington. Good Bye to the R51 and good riddance to a POS.

Electraclyde wrote:

Electraclyde wrote:Would like to try some of these suggestions, but The gun I actually had for 12 days has been at Remington/Para??? for 8 weeks and 3 days now.
When/if I ever get it back again, I doubt that I will keep it. I have already replaced it with an XDs 9. Liked it so well I added an XDs 45.
I am too old to wait for any company to re-engineer a product. As the saying goes, I don't buy green banana's, I may not be around when they get ripe!

Received a refund check in the mail today from Remington. Good Bye to the R51 and good riddance to a POS.

Its somewhat humorous to look back and think folks were paying hundreds over retail for this thing on gunbroker. Meanwhile ....back at the ranch.....R51 design engineers are still scratching their heads.

JRH6856 wrote:

Rick 51/ R51 wrote:Had Remington left the parts inside the R51 exactly the same as the original Model 51, we wouldn't be having these problems.

But would we have a 9mm+P? Or an over-stressed .380 with a cracked bolt from firing overpressure ammo? (and costing around $800-$900)

Sorry, I failed to specify with the word "design". All steel and slightly "beefed" up components, with the same duplicated parts design, and yes, we WOULD have a very safe, reliable, and capable pistol rated for more than 9mm+P can dish out. Sure, a few more ounces and a couple of millimeters more girth in bulk would be the final product, and it WOULD be worth more money. Would I pay $800-$900?... Probably would, knowing it would be reliable like its predecessor, the Model 51. It would have the same beef as the Ford 427 cross-bolted engine derived from the early 60's 352 "Anchor Motor". Same 'FE' block design and identical in outside appearance (with exception of casting numbers and the 427's cross-bolt heads). Still in yet, the R51 wouldn't be for everyone, just as preferences would have it.

OK, after a little grinding, shaping, and polishing, and a nice coat of "Gun Butter", it's time to head out to the range. I hope they're not too busy, being Saturday and the day before Father's Day, and discounted range fees. Probably should wait until 'Senior's' Monday or CHL Tuesday but I'm too anxious to see how 34XXR51 performs. I'll be shooting the same ammunition that I've been shooting so as not to confuse the results. (Federal Range & Target 115 Gr and Blazer Brass 115 Gr). I will attempt to shoot 800 rounds through it if it proves to be successful. If not, I'll save the ammo for the Sig P938. By the way, My first 1000 rounds through both of my R51s were Remington UMC FMJ 115 Gr and the Federal Range & Target, white box, and they performed identically. The Blazer seems about the same also. I'll consider various hollow points and +P ammo after I'm satisfied with the ramp modification.
So... Here goes guys. I'll report later.
Has anyone else done anything on their R51 that has made any improvements?

Well, I did make it to the range yesterday with 1000 rounds of 9mm (non +P) as stated in my previous post and 700 rounds of Rem UMC .45ACP in 230 grain. I started with the R51, hoping for improvements in its operation. It failed miserably... AGAIN, and it started falling apart inside. The small hinge pin drifted out the right side towards the inside of my index knuckle. It fell out of its left bore inside and rendered the trigger's travel minimal enough to disallow the rest of the linkage to follow the stroke. I'm not sure which component its interference fit is supposed to grab, but if it's the aluminum frame sides, I'm going to give up on the R51 unless they add a little weight with a steel frame like its reliable predecessor, the original Model 51. I stopped shooting yesterday at a measly round count of 68. Instead of 7 smoothly timed strings of firing coming from my shooting booth, it was a terribly interrupted and sporadic bunch of embarrassing noise. I got my Sig P938 and my Stainless Colt Gov't 80 out and rounded out the rest of my 2 hour shooting session. I'll send another email to Remington Tuesday 6/17 if I don't get a reply to the email I sent 2 days ago.

"Failure-To-Feed" seems to be erratic enough to be the flimsy magazine and its questionable retention character in the frame. That's "2" magazine related failures regarding FTF issues, not to mention when the mag falls out between shots. If I could find an actual copy of the "blueprint" of this gun, I could probably make more headway in repairing some of its problems. At least making it feed reliably, I could concentrate on the next of its issues... "Failure-To-Fire". Next, "FTRB". Then, "FTST" (Failure-To-Stay-Together".

Rick 51/ R51 wrote:It failed miserably... AGAIN, and it started falling apart inside. The small hinge pin drifted out the right side towards the inside of my index knuckle. It fell out of its left bore inside and rendered the trigger's travel minimal enough to disallow the rest of the linkage to follow the stroke.

...Then, "FTST" (Failure-To-Stay-Together".

I've noticed on all of the R51s I've handled (3 at Gander Mountain, our 2...) that NONE have had either pin correctly set - in each case pins set past flush and down into frame. Sadly, on every one there are punch marks/mars in the finish on the frame finish as well. You'd think that if marring the frame in the process, that at least the pin would be set correctly, not over or under.

To my recollection all (ours for sure) are seated too deep on the left side of the gun and would presumably "walk" the same direction yours did.

*Very, Very* concerning that the guns now also appear to be deteriorating with minimal round count. I believe you said you had 1000 rounds through yours. Not a small amount, but not large by any stretch either.

Frankly, given the erosion on my frame from the block camming over the shoulder (less than 200 rounds) I have to wonder if thee guns would legitimately pass any sort of "Saturday Night Special" durability test I believe some jurisdictions enacted years ago. Given the complete finish removal and gouging already on my gun, I honestly wouldn't expect the firearm to last past 1500 rounds - and it would literally surprise me if it made it that far.

:-/

Oh, and forgot to mention the pin under the grip panels that literally falls out (reported in a couple of other posts and YouTube videos as well) if you remove the grips. Both our guns have the issue.

A pin, presumably critical to the function of the gun, captured between 2 plastic grip panels, which seem to have their own propensity to fall off as the grip screws walk...

Unbelievable...

And someone else reporting pins falling out...

http://r51pistol.com/general-discussion ... the-range/

445r51 wrote:Oh, and forgot to mention the pin under the grip panels that literally falls out (reported in a couple of other posts and YouTube videos as well) if you remove the grips. Both our guns have the issue.

A pin, presumably critical to the function of the gun, captured between 2 plastic grip panels, which seem to have their own propensity to fall off as the grip screws walk...

Unbelievable...

What really is unbelievable is there has has been no announcement from the once great Remington Firearms company.


The apologists here and there are one or two can KMA. A POS by any other name is still a POS and stinks.

I was going back to the range until I read your posts about the grip-hidden pins. Took them off and found only oil prints against the insides of the grip plates. I see no indication of actual pin prints in the plastic ribs as would be indicated if the pins had a tendency to "walk" with any lateral force. Granted, the pins could have been made a bit longer to fit the frame flush. Actually, all 6 floating pins should be flush on both sides. The rear pins being captured by the grip plates seems OK though as their bore bosses look quite thick. As long as the grip plate screws are tight (especially the top screws), I don't see a problem there... unless they have manufactured those pins of varied lengths. As in maybe a batch of short ones? Sure wish I had blueprints of this gun.

I have this crazy thing apart once again as I discovered now, since I re-installed the pivot pin that came out at the range (small one at the rear above the grip plate), the trigger falls without any resistance fully rearward beyond the break position, like it wasn't cocked & ready to fire. I'll flood it down completely to remove any blind particulate, as this thing lives in aluminum particles, a life killing agent for the gun as I see it. Then re-apply the "Gun-Butter". Hmmm, good question though as I have over 5000 rounds fired between the 2 R51s. This one (34XXR51) has seen about 1100 rounds and I wonder if it'll even survive to 4000 rounds like its brother (24XXR51) has so far. Big brother seems to be running much better although FTF (feed) issues are still ever present. Still, unacceptable, even just for a semi-reliable fun-gun for the range and plinking in the back pasture. Very good feeling in the hand and quite nicely printing on targets as they are, these reliability issues are becoming insurmountable.

ANYBODY HEARING ANYTHING NEW AND POSITIVE FROM REMINGTON YET???

OK... Gun-Butter and re-assembly now. If the trigger grabs normally, I'll head on out to the range and report again on the range results. If it doesn't grab, it's going back in the box and I'll wait and see what Remington comes up with. I wonder what's going on with the 700's recalls? Damn! This is starting to depress me and I don't get depressed. "Remington, what are you trying to do to us?"

I think, at this juncture, I'M DONE!!! Nothing I've done to these two R51 has made any improvements. I have worked on quite a few intricate parts and actions on guns and other mechanical assemblies in my lifetime, and this one has me stumped. I can't remember anything I've ever NOT been able to fix. I purchased the 1st one on April 14th, and since it was a dud, I purchased the 2nd one on April 17th since I was planning to send the 1st one in. When the 2nd one turned out to be as unreliable as the 1st, I 'heard' some mention in one of these forum posts that they need some breaking in, like some high-end close tolerance actions. Where I would have spend about 3 or 4 hours per month at the range, I spent 3 or 4 hours per visit running 3 or 4 times the amount of ammunition through them in hopes that breaking them in would be the answer, or at least a big part of it. Not to mention sometimes twice a week, but almost every week anyway. Where I'd normally have casually and enjoyably spent 1500 to 2000 rounds for pleasure, I've spend over 6000 rounds trying to perform the impossible task. Like a job with no rewards. The pleasures of shooting were gone. The nonsense stops here and now. I've written a letter, or started it, that I plan to send to Remington. And keeping a hard copy for my lawyer, if need be. I'm requesting a full refund for both pistols and splitting the difference on the ammo spent (4000 rounds more than normal). I'll ask for 2000 rounds of Remington UMC ammo. I think that's a fair deal. I sure don't want to stir up any legal issues over this thing, but will if I don't get any satisfaction.
I'm fed-up, done, finito, ka-poot with this thing. Any thoughts?

Rick 51/ R51 wrote:I think, at this juncture, I'M DONE!!! Nothing I've done to these two R51 has made any improvements. I have worked on quite a few intricate parts and actions on guns and other mechanical assemblies in my lifetime, and this one has me stumped. I can't remember anything I've ever NOT been able to fix. I purchased the 1st one on April 14th, and since it was a dud, I purchased the 2nd one on April 17th since I was planning to send the 1st one in. When the 2nd one turned out to be as unreliable as the 1st, I 'heard' some mention in one of these forum posts that they need some breaking in, like some high-end close tolerance actions. Where I would have spend about 3 or 4 hours per month at the range, I spent 3 or 4 hours per visit running 3 or 4 times the amount of ammunition through them in hopes that breaking them in would be the answer, or at least a big part of it. Not to mention sometimes twice a week, but almost every week anyway. Where I'd normally have casually and enjoyably spent 1500 to 2000 rounds for pleasure, I've spend over 6000 rounds trying to perform the impossible task. Like a job with no rewards. The pleasures of shooting were gone. The nonsense stops here and now. I've written a letter, or started it, that I plan to send to Remington. And keeping a hard copy for my lawyer, if need be. I'm requesting a full refund for both pistols and splitting the difference on the ammo spent (4000 rounds more than normal). I'll ask for 2000 rounds of Remington UMC ammo. I think that's a fair deal. I sure don't want to stir up any legal issues over this thing, but will if I don't get any satisfaction.
I'm fed-up, done, finito, ka-poot with this thing. Any thoughts?

Keep every piece of documentation you have including all emails to and from Remington.

Hard to believe another week has come and gone and still nothing from Remington - a fix or even an update. Rumor had it that there would be resolution sometime in June. Being that it is already the 19th, if they announced something today, I think it would be a stretch to think that all people with RMA guns would for certain have theirs back by the end of the month when considering business days, shipping time etc. Given other rumors as to plants being closed and manufacturing relocated to AL, I can see this stretching out even longer. More concerning, I have extremely low confidence that when considering a large scale manufacturing move, new equipment, new staff, etc. that this is even truly going even going to get resolved. most of the rumors about fixes seem to have related to replacing slides, redesigned breach blocks and internal tweaks, I have yet to hear about barrels being replaced to address chamber issues.

Tater wrote:

Rick 51/ R51 wrote:I think, at this juncture, I'M DONE!!! Nothing I've done to these two R51 has made any improvements. I have worked on quite a few intricate parts and actions on guns and other mechanical assemblies in my lifetime, and this one has me stumped. I can't remember anything I've ever NOT been able to fix. I purchased the 1st one on April 14th, and since it was a dud, I purchased the 2nd one on April 17th since I was planning to send the 1st one in. When the 2nd one turned out to be as unreliable as the 1st, I 'heard' some mention in one of these forum posts that they need some breaking in, like some high-end close tolerance actions. Where I would have spend about 3 or 4 hours per month at the range, I spent 3 or 4 hours per visit running 3 or 4 times the amount of ammunition through them in hopes that breaking them in would be the answer, or at least a big part of it. Not to mention sometimes twice a week, but almost every week anyway. Where I'd normally have casually and enjoyably spent 1500 to 2000 rounds for pleasure, I've spend over 6000 rounds trying to perform the impossible task. Like a job with no rewards. The pleasures of shooting were gone. The nonsense stops here and now. I've written a letter, or started it, that I plan to send to Remington. And keeping a hard copy for my lawyer, if need be. I'm requesting a full refund for both pistols and splitting the difference on the ammo spent (4000 rounds more than normal). I'll ask for 2000 rounds of Remington UMC ammo. I think that's a fair deal. I sure don't want to stir up any legal issues over this thing, but will if I don't get any satisfaction.
I'm fed-up, done, finito, ka-poot with this thing. Any thoughts?

Keep every piece of documentation you have including all emails to and from Remington.

Thanks John. I have everything documented (w/ hard-copies). Somehow, I don't think it will come to any legal action(s). The "Company" hears us and I know they too would like to see these issues resolved as they wish the R51 had been successful, "as advertised" and without the many hiccups. I'm patient and will wait to hear what they come up with. Even "when" they do resolve the R51's problems, I'll still ask for some ammunition back. In the meantime, I have my reliable pleasure shooters, Colt, Sig, S&Ws, old Remingtons, High Standard, and Winchesters. I did rant a bit in my last post, but needed a little steam release I suppose. I have plenty to shoot for now so I really have nothing to complain about.

445r51 wrote:Hard to believe another week has come and gone and still nothing from Remington - a fix or even an update. Rumor had it that there would be resolution sometime in June. Being that it is already the 19th, if they announced something today, I think it would be a stretch to think that all people with RMA guns would for certain have theirs back by the end of the month when considering business days, shipping time etc. Given other rumors as to plants being closed and manufacturing relocated to AL, I can see this stretching out even longer. More concerning, I have extremely low confidence that when considering a large scale manufacturing move, new equipment, new staff, etc. that this is even truly going even going to get resolved. most of the rumors about fixes seem to have related to replacing slides, redesigned breach blocks and internal tweaks, I have yet to hear about barrels being replaced to address chamber issues.

Ya know, 445, moving their facility 'could' be a good thing. The R51s could fall into the right hands over there... the hands of a true craftsman who already has some 'fixes' in his box of toys & tools. Although, in the meantime, this IS a tough nut to crunch with their lack of communication on the subject of processes and progress. At this juncture, a part-time high school kid could be hired to do some individual communicating with those who sent their guns in and haven't heard a word. Just a simple and occasional, "Dear Mr. (your name), We still have your R51, Serial#0005XXXR51, and we found......." I'm sure there are kids out there who would love to do the job and do quite well at it. Maybe a high school job program like 'Industrial Arts class' for a grade? Just a thought to break the silence.

An hour and half today on hold today waiting for customer service never got though, I am going to initiate a refund. This is beyond being patient and is in the inexcusable customer relations sphere. I'll try again tomorrow.

draidt wrote:An hour and half today on hold today waiting for customer service never got though, I am going to initiate a refund. This is beyond being patient and is in the inexcusable customer relations sphere. I'll try again tomorrow.

How does one get a refund? I emailed them three times with no response and I can't reach anyone by phone.

When my gun had been in their hands for about 2 months, I did get thru by phone and ask for a refund. Long story short, I did received a refund check from Remington for the full purchase price. This did take about 5 weeks. I did not ask for any ammo or funds to replace ammo.
I have completely lost any confidence I may have had in the past for Remington products. At this point in my life, I don't have time to waste on poor products and VERY POOR customer service.

Ok ... it is like this

I sent my R51 back 3 months ago and still nothing. I managed to talk to the Senior V.P and General Manager of Remington handguns. Based on that conversation I have asked for a refund. It is my opinion that Remington is no where close to fixing the issues with this pistol. It is time for me to cut my losses and move on. I wish the best of luck to the rest of you ... but as for me I am totally done with Remington.

draidt wrote:An hour and half today on hold today waiting for customer service never got though, I am going to initiate a refund. This is beyond being patient and is in the inexcusable customer relations sphere. I'll try again tomorrow.

Hey draidt, I held for a long time too, but after the 2nd time yesterday, I used their call-back option and got a call back in less than 20 minutes. I didn't get the answer(s) that I wanted to hear, but, I haven't sent either of my guns in yet. He just said, "Send them in." He offered no suggestions or anything that even remotely sounded like he had any interest in helping. I too am beyond normal patience level, but it's not like I paid a lot for these guns or expected them to be like high-end guns. Although, I didn't expect them to be the failures that they are. Maybe I'll stash them in the bottom of the safe and wait until they announce 'SOMETHING", and just forget they're there. I have other important things I want to be doing, like heading back to Vegas on the 30th this month. Maybe I'll head to the gulf and catch some redfish next week too.

I will hang tight for the re release of the R51. Removal of references to the R51 on Remington's web site suggests some strategy for the eventual re release of the R51. The Great Escape of Remington and some other Northeast based gun manufacturers to Pro 2nd Amendment States will naturally put a kink in all manufacturing, service, support, and R&D processes. I will be patient for months longer if necessary. After all, these companies have merely moved to other Proud States of the United States of America ! American designed, engineered and made in the USA !

tubehead wrote:I will hang tight for the re release of the R51. Removal of references to the R51 on Remington's web site suggests some strategy for the eventual re release of the R51. The Great Escape of Remington and some other Northeast based gun manufacturers to Pro 2nd Amendment States will naturally put a kink in all manufacturing, service, support, and R&D processes. I will be patient for months longer if necessary. After all, these companies have merely moved to other Proud States of the United States of America ! American designed, engineered and made in the USA !

No offense meant but the term "Pie in the Sky" comes to mind.

Strategy ? Get real they never admitted to any problem at all.


American designed, engineered and made in the USA !

Ruger, Henry and Sig still adhere to that time honored formula I am sure there are others that I left out. When the once great Remington company was sold to a investment group whose only objective is profits is what happened. They ruined Marlin and on the way to ruining Remington

Once you all get your $$ back from Remington...it's gonna be dead 'round here !!