Yep. I was excited by the promise of low felt recoil and ease of conceal-ability. Instead, I am looking at a Springfield XDs or XDm subcompact.

I was excited by the promise of low felt recoil and ease of conceal-ability.[/quote]Those promisses were delivered on. It conceals easily and has remarkably mild recoil, whatever any other issues may or may not be present in a given example.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

I for one am very pleased with my R51 with the exception of the difficulty in racking the slide. Once it is "cocked" you can re-rack it rather easy, but the initial one is harder than advertised. After 450 rounds I must say that it is somewhat easier but not as advertised on the two Remington videos. It has lived upt to what I wanted in a single stack nine. I'm a big fan of the Makarov and this R51 is so close in size that many of my holsters will work with it.

I guess they left out the promise of a safe and reliable gun because it is what you should expect from a time honored marque. Maybe that promise should be included in any new offerings.

Guess all we can do is wait, untill Remy admits a problem......

The problems with the R51 are probably no more than a blip on Remington's radar with all the closing and consolidating that they are doing. They are primarily a rifle and ammo manufacturer and the few hundred dissatisfied R51 purchasers are no big problem to them. I'm committed to keeping mine till a clear fix is announced.

Kepiing mine to, I have found the magazines corners , edges sharp as heck. Even the plastic base, would round them down a bit, guess they really couldn't hold it against a person.

I'm waiting like a lot of others. It does get a little frustrating at times. I sent mine in one month ago today.
I guess I've grown accustomed to that personal contact & good service over at HTA High Tower Armory.
I guess I'll go shoot by 90/22 bullpup and drownd my sorrows.


TD

lincen wrote:The problems with the R51 are probably no more than a blip on Remington's radar with all the closing and consolidating that they are doing. They are primarily a rifle and ammo manufacturer and the few hundred dissatisfied R51 purchasers are no big problem to them. I'm committed to keeping mine till a clear fix is announced.

Whos to say your handgun is at the same location you originally sent it too, probably at another Remington factory (or some factory under Freedom Group) by now.....or as some may be starting to think.....outer space. Nothings more fun that buying a new gun and months later wondering what its going to be like to shoot....

Sorry guys,
I jumped ship. Traded mine in at the LGS (where I originally bought it) for a Sig p238.
While My R51 was a nightmare for the 1st 100 rounds( every mal function you all have experienced) after shooting 50 or so +p rounds it has functioned perfect for the next 100 rounds.
I just didn't feel comfortable using it as my carry. It really is to bad, cause the 51 is a real pleasure to shoot and a gun I would actually practice with at the range. I took a bath on the trade in but the 238 was a super sale deal.
I have not yet fired mine but have used a friends 238 often at the range. Good luck with Remington. They are a great company and will do the right thing sooner or later.
Mike

Remy,

I sent my R51 back for service on Apr 10, 2014. I had it one day and had problems with the breach. Never has Remington updated me on the repairs or anything for that matter. I have called 3 times, stayed on hold for 20 minutes each call and told each time it should be ready in a week. This has to be the worse service center of any arms company. One rep told me it was the new service center in AR and they are working out logistics. A simple confirmation e-mail and update would be appreciated. The only way I knew they received my shipment was by checking my UPS tracking number.

I am a Smith & Wesson fan. Remington is making sure that I stay with S&W.

Thanks

Texashoot

Texashoot wrote:Remy,

I sent my R51 back for service on Apr 10, 2014. I had it one day and had problems with the breach. Never has Remington updated me on the repairs or anything for that matter. I have called 3 times, stayed on hold for 20 minutes each call and told each time it should be ready in a week. This has to be the worse service center of any arms company. One rep told me it was the new service center in AR and they are working out logistics. A simple confirmation e-mail and update would be appreciated. The only way I knew they received my shipment was by checking my UPS tracking number.

I am a Smith & Wesson fan. Remington is making sure that I stay with S&W.

Thanks

I hear ya bud, asked for mine back. I want a gun I can shoot not follow up on it weeks on end by phone or internet. A week or so is understandable, but I believe this is getting ridiculous as are many others. How much fun can you have with a gun that's out of sight, in another state for that long. Maybe Remington is hoping that people will forget they even sent their gun in, just stop calling and the problem goes away for them. Anyways, since you mentioned being a S&W fan, I traded for a Shield 9. That my friend is American craftsmanship for a mass produced carry gun. My experiences with Remington repairs on longguns has been quite opposite however when sent back to New York, fyi, on a first year model, turn around was 1-2 weeks.
Texashoot

lincen wrote:I for one am very pleased with my R51 with the exception of the difficulty in racking the slide. Once it is "cocked" you can re-rack it rather easy, but the initial one is harder than advertised. After 450 rounds I must say that it is somewhat easier but not as advertised on the two Remington videos. It has lived upt to what I wanted in a single stack nine. I'm a big fan of the Makarov and this R51 is so close in size that many of my holsters will work with it.

Try this: When racking the slide, hold the trigger fully back. (Make sure the gun is empty first. Obviously don't want to do this when clearing the chamber). If it is easier to rack, it indicates the disconnector is binding. When the trigger is pulled, it retracts the disconnector so it doesn't interfere with the slide.

Loose tolerances make the disconnector prone to binding. It is something I hope ROC is going to address.

JRH6856 wrote:

lincen wrote:I for one am very pleased with my R51 with the exception of the difficulty in racking the slide. Once it is "cocked" you can re-rack it rather easy, but the initial one is harder than advertised. After 450 rounds I must say that it is somewhat easier but not as advertised on the two Remington videos. It has lived upt to what I wanted in a single stack nine. I'm a big fan of the Makarov and this R51 is so close in size that many of my holsters will work with it.

Try this: When racking the slide, hold the trigger fully back. (Make sure the gun is empty first. Obviously don't want to do this when clearing the chamber). If it is easier to rack, it indicates the disconnector is binding. When the trigger is pulled, it retracts the disconnector so it doesn't interfere with the slide.

Loose tolerances make the disconnector prone to binding. It is something I hope ROC is going to address.

It does indeed make it easier and, like you, I hope Remington makes the necessary changes to get these guns operating the way the test guns did.

Another thing that can help if the disconnector is binding is to pull the slide up and back instead of straight back. It can help get the slide started over the disconnector. And it keeps your finger off the trigger.

Would like to try some of these suggestions, but The gun I actually had for 12 days has been at Remington/Para??? for 8 weeks and 3 days now.
When/if I ever get it back again, I doubt that I will keep it. I have already replaced it with an XDs 9. Liked it so well I added an XDs 45.
I am too old to wait for any company to re-engineer a product. As the saying goes, I don't buy green banana's, I may not be around when they get ripe!

mikeomatic wrote:Sorry guys,
I jumped ship. Traded mine in at the LGS (where I originally bought it) for a Sig p238.
While My R51 was a nightmare for the 1st 100 rounds( every mal function you all have experienced) after shooting 50 or so +p rounds it has functioned perfect for the next 100 rounds.
I just didn't feel comfortable using it as my carry. It really is to bad, cause the 51 is a real pleasure to shoot and a gun I would actually practice with at the range. I took a bath on the trade in but the 238 was a super sale deal.
I have not yet fired mine but have used a friends 238 often at the range. Good luck with Remington. They are a great company and will do the right thing sooner or later.
Mike

The guns are not comparable in any way. The P238 is .380ACP, based on the 1911 (more or less), 6-round capacity, single-action-only, and uses a standard browning style lockup. It's meant to be a pocket 380, which is not the role of the R51.

+P rounds in .380ACP? Please be careful about that, or just don't use it. There is no SAAMI spec for +P in .380ACP.

I'm glad you're happy with your new firearm. I hope it gives you many years of great service.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Wouldn't .380 +p rounds just be a 9mm round shortened to the size of .380?

Wizardsblade wrote:Wouldn't .380 +p rounds just be a 9mm round shortened to the size of .380?

No.

First off, there is no SAAMI spec for .380ACP +P. Let's just be clear about that. So any manufacturer making something labeled .380ACP +P is either engaging in a marketing gimmick or has produced ammunition which exceeds SAAMI pressure limitations. How much? Who knows. Will the gun handle it? Again, who knows. Many/most manufacturers will use a single over-pressure "proof" load which also exceeds SAAMI spec for maximum load, but typically conforms to SAAMI Proof Load specifications but the firearm is not expected to endure a diet of proof load pressures but rather to prove that it can handle a single, accidental, over-pressure. But even then over-pressure events still damage and destroy firearms all the time.

That out of the way, as a general, back of the napkin, rule, SAAMI +P specifications are usually in the range of 10% greater pressure than maximum standard pressure. The maximum spec pressure for a .380ACP is 21,500 psi. Assuming that a theoretical SAAMI +P spec for .380ACP would also be 10%, that would make the pressure level at about 23,650 psi.

The SAAMI spec for standard pressure for 9mm Luger is 35,000 psi. Even if you assumed an extremely weak "target" load and backed off the pressure a full 10,000 psi (which would likely not even generate enough energy to cycle the slide on most 9mm pistols), that would still put the theoretical .380ACP +P at more than 1,300 psi less.

Even if you were to find a 10% over-pressure .380ACP load (such as is supposedly offered by Buffalo Bore), it wouldn't come close to being just a 9mm round shortened to the size of .380

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Any thoughts/suggestions to debate while we wait? There are several reports of RMA guns with Remington now over 8 weeks with no end in sight. Updates are impossible to obtain and Remington has yet to issue any sort of official statement on the matter. Further, in my opinion, they still have a potentially dangerous gun floating around on the market that I personally feel should have already been recalled; if not for the concerning over pressure symptoms and the non-SAMMI spec chambers, how about at least for the fact that the guns are marketed for self-defense use and are simply nowhere near reliable enough for carry? Remington customer services representatives (if you care to sit through the extended wait times) will divulge nothing, even for owners with outstanding RMAs. Yet at the same time Remington has continued to peddle the gun at trade shows, and the mainstream gun media persists in publishing favorable cover stories – despite the sheer volume of “Average Joe” experiences the contrary; experiences that range from inexcusable to downright dangerous.

At $993 in for two R51s, not counting the wasted ammo, wasted time, and more than 2 months without functioning firearms, I’m pretty angry about all of this. At this point I feel that this situation is unprecedented and well past time for Remington to at least address the owners. I would also expect (but doubt we’ll ultimately receive) some sort of goodwill compensation for our trouble.

Seeing the continued marketing of the firearm is really disturbing. Given that the mainstream gun media pumped the gun up so much before the launch and has plastered news-racks with overwhelmingly positive “reviews” since, it is clearly useless in running to the media for redress.

A General District Court civil suit in my state costs $65 bucks to file and about 15 minutes worth of time. Anyone else considering similar options or have other ideas?

Btw, the registered agent (the entity you have served when filing a law suit) for Remington within the state of VA appears to be:

CT CORPORATION SYSTEM
4701 COX ROAD, SUITE 285
GLEN ALLEN VA 23060

Principal Office
870 REMINGTON DR
MADISON NC 27025

If your not happy or down right angry about Remington/R51/Customer Service etc. I would suggest you start the process of a refund or return from Remington. One guy in another thread posted his conversation with Remington on a refund and I can tell you from experience a request and return of the firearm can be done, after all, it is YOUR gun. Cut your losses (if any) and buy another comparable firearm and carry on shooting. Remingtons business ethics are showing their true colors with this episode. To be fair Remington hasn't really advertised their R51 on their website, other than clicking on their 2014 Catalog and finding it on one page. Instead they are showcasing their waaaay overpriced muzzleloader and their two air guns. Keeping my fingers crossed that some other company buys Remington from Freedom Group and give the name 'Remington' the respect it deserves.

I have requested a refund and have been informed that it has been approved thru all levels of management that are needed. Approval has gone to finance and a check SHOULD be issued within 30 days. I will believe it when I actually have the check in hand.
I have carefully documented the day and time of every phone call I have made to Remington as well as the name of each person I have spoken to.
Remington (or Para or whomever) has had MY gun for just over 9 weeks now. I had it 12 days.
I really did like the trigger on the gun as well as the somewhat lower felt recoil. I really am disappointed in the gun and Remington. At this stage of my life (I am 68 years old and closing fast on 69), I will not be buying any additional Remington products. In fact I have a Remington R1 Carry that I may sell just because it is a Remington. It really is no better or worse that my Springfields, Kimber, or Colts.
Civil suits or a class action law suit, I don't have the time or the patience for that.
IF, I should end up having this gun back, I will likely take it to the range and use it for a TARGET. Then post pic of it on every firearms forum I can find. Will not accomplish anything, but I would feel MUCH better.

Hi Kirk,
I really liked the R51, that said after the issues I had the 1st 100 rounds I really was not going to ever trust it. Also It was just a bit to big for my carry. Again its a real shame cause I really liked the trigger and the grip safety.
One thing I do want to clear up....the + P ammo was used in the Remington at the suggestion of the Remington tech after I explained to him on the phone my mal function.( not the Sig 238) He Said " run some +p through the R51 and see if it clears up". I really was surprised to say the least...but I said what the hell, tried it and the gun worked fine after 20 rounds of the +P. That's when I decided to trade it at the dealer I bought it from for the Sig 238
I realize the 238 is a different gun. It is a very nice shooter with Zero issues right out of the box and will be my carry. I am used to the 1911 style and safety as I had one in the military (Viet Nam) And I compete with my SR9 on a regular basis so I have to use the safety from the draw.
Good luck with Remington, they are a fine company and I am sure they will do right sooner or later.
Mike

mikeomatic wrote:Hi Kirk,
I really liked the R51, that said after the issues I had the 1st 100 rounds I really was not going to ever trust it. Also It was just a bit to big for my carry. Again its a real shame cause I really liked the trigger and the grip safety.
One thing I do want to clear up....the + P ammo was used in the Remington at the suggestion of the Remington tech after I explained to him on the phone my mal function.( not the Sig 238) He Said " run some +p through the R51 and see if it clears up". I really was surprised to say the least...but I said what the hell, tried it and the gun worked fine after 20 rounds of the +P. That's when I decided to trade it at the dealer I bought it from for the Sig 238
I realize the 238 is a different gun. It is a very nice shooter with Zero issues right out of the box and will be my carry. I am used to the 1911 style and safety as I had one in the military (Viet Nam) And I compete with my SR9 on a regular basis so I have to use the safety from the draw.
Good luck with Remington, they are a fine company and I am sure they will do right sooner or later.
Mike

Fair enough.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

mikeomatic wrote:Hi Kirk,
I really liked the R51, that said after the issues I had the 1st 100 rounds I really was not going to ever trust it. Also It was just a bit to big for my carry. Again its a real shame cause I really liked the trigger and the grip safety.
One thing I do want to clear up....the + P ammo was used in the Remington at the suggestion of the Remington tech after I explained to him on the phone my mal function.( not the Sig 238) He Said " run some +p through the R51 and see if it clears up". I really was surprised to say the least...but I said what the hell, tried it and the gun worked fine after 20 rounds of the +P. That's when I decided to trade it at the dealer I bought it from for the Sig 238
I realize the 238 is a different gun. It is a very nice shooter with Zero issues right out of the box and will be my carry. I am used to the 1911 style and safety as I had one in the military (Viet Nam) And I compete with my SR9 on a regular basis so I have to use the safety from the draw.
Good luck with Remington, they are a fine company and I am sure they will do right sooner or later.
Mike

You might be right ... Remington might do something right ... sooner or later .... but lets review this issue.
First the R51 is a resurrected old style pistol that many might call a poor design. It is not terribly surprising that they are having issues.

Second ... it appears that the same group of people who developed this poorly designed weapon are apparently the same ones attempting to fix it. It is becoming more than obvious that Remington is stumped in how to achieve the results they so desperately need.

Third, Remington's poor communication on this matter seems to even deepen the concerns on the part of the buying public as to the integrity and reliability of the weapon and the company.

My R51 has been there for several months now and there is no end in sight. As an FFL dealer, there is no way I would have another one of their R51's in my business. If I sell something, my reputation is also on the line. This business is tough enough without having to deal with a company who can't communicate effectively and cannot manage to fix concerns in a timely manner.