Received a check in the mail today from Remington for a full refund of my purchase price including shipping and FFL fees for my R51. What began with much anticipation in January, Much Glee in March when I received the pistol and complete disappointment a week later after my one and only range trip. To Months of waiting and seeing other reports of the same issues I had without any acknowledgement from Remington that indeed there was a problem, To a brief ray of hope when acknowledgement came from Remington that yes there was a problem and a redesign was in the works but we don't have an exact date of when manufacturing will begin Late October ??? At first I opted to wait and the more I thought about how this was handled by a FORMER great company the less appealing waiting for a unproven replacement became. I opted for the refund it took about 3 weeks.

I hope the new design does work out and will be looking at how it does when it is released.

I have not received my check yet - but ditto on the exact same experience/feelings. I was so enamored with the R51 that I bought 2 – and both were basket cases of problems. I have a lot of mixed emotions about the gun. Had it worked it would have been a huge game changer and without a doubt (for me) my go-to daily carry. Unfortunately, in my 30 years of enthusiastic firearms ownership and collecting, I have not come across a single other example of such a severely flawed piece of junk. The R51, in my mind, is unparalleled for the sheer number of major flaws that could be packed into a single thing. Any one of the serious problems I found with the R51 should have probably been enough for a major recall – but the truly stunning thing to me is that is that the R51 has not just one but several significant problems! I find it incomprehensive that something so screwed up, in so many ways, could have ever made it out the door.

After long and careful consideration, I have determined that I have zero confidence that Remington can/will make this right. How can I believe that they will make an honest attempt at fixing the myriad of problems with the gun, when they cannot even produce what I consider to be an honest press release on the whole matter? From their claiming that the pre-production R51s were “flawless” (when more than one "expert" present at the R51 Gunsite launch acknowledged jams that day and again during their individual testing), to Remington’s constant repetition that the gun is "safe" (something I have a hard time believing with OOB discharges, severe primer flow, and guns locking up with live rounds that cannot be extracted due to contact with rifling), to the fact that Freedom Group has doubled down that this is not a "recall" but rather a "product exchange" – I just see nothing but a hollow, feckless, overdriven marketing and sales organization – and NOT a competent firearm manufacture that has any business or aptitude for designing and producing well made, reliable guns.

My personal prognostication is that the R51 will be back in people’s hands sometime after October and that some but not all of the issues will be addressed. Once back on the market, I do not believe that Remington will address any further problems with the gun. I also believe that none of the other head scratchers – such as the abysmally designed magazine floor plate, which looks like it more appropriately belongs and child’s toy gun manufactured in China – will ever be addressed. I believe the guns will continue to exhibit some of the less severe issues, and I also think that they will start to show long term durability problems, primarily at the interface between the breach block and the frame.

In the end, despite millions invested, I see the product never taking off due to lingering concerns stemming from the initial launch. I see the R51 eventually getting killed off, or the design sold to another company. I give it about 1 more year (after the 2015 Shot Show) before the plug is pulled. At that point it will join the ranks with the Colt 2000.

For giggles, here is a sort history (from Wikipedia) regarding the Colt 2000. I see obvious similarities between the Colt and the R51 already. Considering the 2000, how could a gun jointly designed between Reed Knight and Eugene Stoner ever have failed? But it did, once Colt got ahold of it. Apparently, the R51 had been designed by a great engineer at AAC and was then moved over to Remington for production. See any parallels?

The Colt All American 2000 was introduced at the 1990 Shooting Hunting and Outdoor Trade Show (SHOT Show). It had been a joint venture between Reed Knight and Eugene Stoner of Knight's Armament over a period of several years. Once the design was handed off to Colt, the two designers had little input regarding the final design.

C. Reed Knight specified that the pistol should have a 6-pound trigger pull. Colt increased this to 12 pounds and extended the barrel and length of the grip frame. The Colt 2000 was made from parts produced by an outside vendor and assembled in the company's West Hartford facility.

Despite the innovations and bearing the Colt name, the pistol was plagued with reports of inaccuracy and unreliability, and suffered from the poor publicity of having to be recalled in 1993. The massive product launch failed and production of the All American 2000 ended in 1994. Colt's President Ron Whitaker stated that sales volume was not sufficient for production to remain economical.

Colt historian, Rick Sapp, has called the pistol "one of the most embarrassing failures in the company's history." Massad Ayoob was particularly critical of the design calling it "sad and ugly with pathetic accuracy".

Design

The Colt 2000's internal workings were based on older firearms designs from the early twentieth century. The rotating barrel, for example, was based on that of the Steyr 1912 and the roller-locking mechanism was based on a design used by the French Manufacture d'Armes et des Cycles de Saint-Etienne since 1914.

I jumped ship long time ago, I could see the writing on the wall if you will. Its a shame for the Remington name but it is NOT the same company it use to be. There are much better guns on the market today.... far ....far better than the R51.

Glad it all worked out draidt...!!

I'm sticking with it for now, failure histories, reputation and all. Maybe, just maybe, they'll surprise me with steel lined frame guides and a steel ramp for the block to stumble over. Perfect job for the thick compound of "Gun Butter". Or better still, and recoil-taming steel frame like it's predecessor, the Model 51... the successful, accurate & reliable Pedersen-action pistol that only suffered due to the "Roaring 20's" poor economy. The R51's low recoil character could even be more tame with the extra weight from a steel frame. Could even be as gentle as my old 51 in .380 ACP. Time will tell this story. I'm holding back sending in my 2nd R51 until I find out if the "fix" is the real deal or not. If the revised production gun fails like the initial production guns did, I'll just send them both back for refunds.

Rick 51/ R51 wrote:I'm sticking with it for now, failure histories, reputation and all. Maybe, just maybe, they'll surprise me with steel lined frame guides and a steel ramp for the block to stumble over. Perfect job for the thick compound of "Gun Butter". Or better still, and recoil-taming steel frame like it's predecessor, the Model 51... the successful, accurate & reliable Pedersen-action pistol that only suffered due to the "Roaring 20's" poor economy. The R51's low recoil character could even be more tame with the extra weight from a steel frame. Could even be as gentle as my old 51 in .380 ACP. Time will tell this story. I'm holding back sending in my 2nd R51 until I find out if the "fix" is the real deal or not. If the revised production gun fails like the initial production guns did, I'll just send them both back for refunds.

Hope it works out for you, Hopefully you have a revised R51 in hand in a few weeks. I personally would rather see them scrap the whole R51 idea and start fresh with a couple of old model 51's and a drawing board. The clock is ticking, anxious to see what they roll out this time....

remmy wrote:

Rick 51/ R51 wrote:I'm sticking with it for now, failure histories, reputation and all. Maybe, just maybe, they'll surprise me with steel lined frame guides and a steel ramp for the block to stumble over. Perfect job for the thick compound of "Gun Butter". Or better still, and recoil-taming steel frame like it's predecessor, the Model 51... the successful, accurate & reliable Pedersen-action pistol that only suffered due to the "Roaring 20's" poor economy. The R51's low recoil character could even be more tame with the extra weight from a steel frame. Could even be as gentle as my old 51 in .380 ACP. Time will tell this story. I'm holding back sending in my 2nd R51 until I find out if the "fix" is the real deal or not. If the revised production gun fails like the initial production guns did, I'll just send them both back for refunds.

Hope it works out for you, Hopefully you have a revised R51 in hand in a few weeks. I personally would rather see them scrap the whole R51 idea and start fresh with a couple of old model 51's and a drawing board. The clock I ticking, anxious to see what they roll out this time....

Ya know, remmy, the whole R51 program grabbed my interest only because of my old Model 51. It's a sentimental thing for me. Up until March of this year, that 95 year old 51 was my primary carry piece. I started shooting it back in the 50s and never had a moment of problem or question. It was passed down from grandpa to dad, then from dad to me. Grandpa bought it new in 1919 for $15.50. My 1st disappointment with the R51 is that it has a larger girth than its predecessor (51). My 2nd disappointment is the laundry list that followed the fantastic failures of the rushed product. I fully believe in and trust the Pedersen delayed blowback design, but it does require some hardened parts inside to be classified a long-life & durable pistol. And, I'm with you on the idea of starting design of a new one with the old one for copying. I'm getting anxious to get the new one also. Meanwhile, I'll continue to carry my Sig Sauer P938 and my Colt Gov't Model 80.

Great story on an old firearm, Thanks for sharing!

Before sending it back, I was able to get my r51 working sortof ok. As in jamming only every 2nd or 3rd mag. I put a few hundred rounds through it. Didn't see any wear from the pedersonblock on the aluminum frame ledge.....just from the normal contact.

The wear I did see was on top of the frame where the block was rubbing/gouging trenches across the top of the frame. It also was impacting the area of the frame around the barrel at the front of the pederson block. More severe examples of this were probably the reason for the out of battery firing and bulged cases. I agree with Remington, this was probably not dangerous mostly. I would worry about aluminum cased ammo though.

It was as if the block was not clearanced for the frame. Aside from this, with the slide open, the mags would move up and down quite a bit. This was probably another reason for the stovepipes and double feeds.

The gun started out jamming every few rounds. After being fired a bit, it could sometimes make it through a mag. The filing helped a lot. If I had worked on the mag seating more, it probably would have gotten better still. But then, this was a new gun, not a gunsmith special. I sent it back to Remington for the official fix.

My amateur gunsmith attempts to fix it made a big difference. You would think that would indicate the gun is within hailing distance of being reliable and that this would certainly be within Remington's capabilities.

I considered getting a refund too, but really like the idea of a small, all metal, fixed barrel 9mm. The r51 is easy to shoot fast and way more accurate than my brother's cpx2. I really hope the re-release version is reliable.

Welcome to the Remington Owners Forum mr220v !!

Keep us in the loop on your repair turn around...