As I reported earlier, my R51 is shooting Winchester White Box 115gr FMJ low and to the left. But, that was with a two-hand hold. Today, I shot off of a sandbag at 15 yards.

First, for comparison, I shot my 1949 S&W K-38 Masterpiece (aka Pre-14) using 148 gr. wadcutters. Here my second group with that gun (better than first group):

http://peace.saumag.edu/faculty/kardas/Courses/38group.jpg

Next, I shot the R51 and was not able to hit the paper at all. All of the shots were low and left. So, I put a mark on the target (high and rightr) yielding these results:

http://peace.saumag.edu/faculty/kardas/Courses/9mmgroup.jpg

Went to my one of my local gun shops. They gave me a 5/64 hex key to loosen the rear sight. At home, I moved the rear sight to the right some. I'll see in the morning to see if that pulls the group right. I'll work on the low part of the aim later. I wonder if Remington supplies a lower front sight.

I shot my 638 S&W too (my usual daily carry), just to compare:

http://peace.saumag.edu/faculty/kardas/Courses/38groupsnub.jpg

Sounds good...

Went to range again this morning after moving the rear sight a tad to the right. Here are the results when aiming at the bullseye (6 o'clock hold, 15 yds, sandbag, Winchester White Box FMJs 115gr).

http://peace.saumag.edu/faculty/kardas/Courses/poa.jpg

Moving the sights did help the group move right, but group was still too low.

When I aimed at the top of the black area of the target these were the results:

http://peace.saumag.edu/faculty/kardas/Courses/top.jpg

Finally, I shot some Hornady Critical Defense 115gr at bullseye. Here are those results:

http://peace.saumag.edu/faculty/kardas/Courses/defend.jpg

My take is that this R51 is not a target pistol, but that is not its intent. I'd like it if it were more accurate, to be sure. Still don't know what to do about the front sight either.

One good thing to report is that the pistol does run. I have had no further issues since my two initial failures to feed the first cartridge on the first day. It does spray spent cartridges to the right, most of the time, and to the back some of the time.

I got one on Sept 2. Have run 100 something rounds of UMC 115 and 124 through it without issue. I've bullseye shot it a bit and agree it's not a target pistol out of the box. Combine the thin grip with a fairly stiff trigger pull (feels like a 5.5 lb. , or more) and the gun tends to pull left or right depending on how it sits in my hand. I feel the factory windage setting is fine. Elevation with 115 gr is low for me 2 handed and close to POA 1 handed. 124 or 147, +P loads might be dead on.

A 3 lb trigger would help on the range but how light does one want to go for SD?

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epk49 wrote:Went to range again this morning after moving the rear sight a tad to the right. Here are the results when aiming at the bullseye (6 o'clock hold, 15 yds, sandbag, Winchester White Box FMJs 115gr).

http://peace.saumag.edu/faculty/kardas/Courses/poa.jpg

Moving the sights did help the group move right, but group was still too low.

When I aimed at the top of the black area of the target these were the results:

http://peace.saumag.edu/faculty/kardas/Courses/top.jpg

Finally, I shot some Hornady Critical Defense 115gr at bullseye. Here are those results:

http://peace.saumag.edu/faculty/kardas/Courses/defend.jpg

My take is that this R51 is not a target pistol, but that is not its intent. I'd like it if it were more accurate, to be sure. Still don't know what to do about the front sight either.

One good thing to report is that the pistol does run. I have had no further issues since my two initial failures to feed the first cartridge on the first day. It does spray spent cartridges to the right, most of the time, and to the back some of the time.

There's got to be something going on to get groups like that. Bad rifling? None?

Remember, this has a lifetime warranty too...if something's wrong, they'll make it right

Finally got back to range, this time with +P 9mm cartridges.

Bass Pro Shop did not stock any FMJ +P so I had to buy JHPs. My thought was that the +P, being faster, might hit closer to point of aim than regular 9 mm cartridges.

The picture below shows the results from 15 yds while aiming at the X using two hands. (I was at a different range than last time and could not set up sand bags.)

http://peace.saumag.edu/faculty/kardas/Courses/twogroups.jpg

The five holes near the X are from Hornady American Gunner XTP +P 115 gr.

The five holes below are from Hornady Critical Duty+P 135 gr.

I will buying more of the American Gunner XTP +P 115 gr to use as my carry load.

epk49 wrote:Finally got back to range, this time with +P 9mm cartridges.

Bass Pro Shop did not stock any FMJ +P so I had to buy JHPs. My thought was that the +P, being faster, might hit closer to point of aim than regular 9 mm cartridges.

The picture below shows the results from 15 yds while aiming at the X using two hands. (I was at a different range than last time and could not set up sand bags.)

http://peace.saumag.edu/faculty/kardas/Courses/twogroups.jpg

The five holes near the X are from Hornady American Gunner XTP +P 115 gr.

The five holes below are from Hornady Critical Duty+P 135 gr.

I will buying more of the American Gunner XTP +P 115 gr to use as my carry load.

Food for thought

https://youtu.be/AYwnZt0j7co

Interesting video.

Here is a similar video, but for the American Gunner XTP 115 gr.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SawaatDRXRo

Performance of the two seems similar. I guess Iike that round's hitting where I point it, unlike the Critical Duty's greater drop at 15 yds.

I'm not planning on using the R51 much on the range, other than checking regularly that the defense rounds go where I point them.

My R51 also shoots about 6 inches below the point of aim. I called Remington to try and buy a taller rear sight and they wanted me to send my gun back for repair. I told them it functioned fine but they wanted it back anyway because the said it should NOT be shooting low and something must be wrong with it. So I sent it to one of there service centers and them guy's shot it and agreed it was shooting much lower than the point of aim. They had it for 3 weeks and called Remington to see what they wanted to do about it and Remington didn't know what to tell them except to send it back to me and tell me that soon as they made a taller sight they would send it to me. So I got the gun back and it still hits 6 inches low at 15 yards. They were no help at all. I joined this group to see if others were having the same trouble. It seems there are.

My R51 would not "group" at all. Gun went to the repair facility in Alabama. Slidee was replaced (took between 2 and 3 weeks). Talked on phone with that facility and was told that in the event that it shot too low, the front sight was a standard Novak cut and the aftermarket had many choices. After extensive testing from 10, 15, and 25 yards, using target and defensive ammo, in 115gr, 124gr, and 147gr I found the gun to shoot low at all distances. The longer distance = lower group. At 10 yards it was consistently 3 to 4" low. (By the way, best accuracy was offhand and not from a rest).
I ordered a Dawson Precision FO front sight .130" high. (stock is about .175) POA and POI are now whithin an inch at 10 yards. After spending more on ammo than I did on the gun, I decided to try some home loads that I use in 3 other 9mm guns. Without going into lots of detail regarding bullets and powder, I found POI to vary by as much as 2" between powder loads (5.3 vs 4.7).
Conclusion, this gun is VERY sensitive to what ammo is used. By the way with over 700 rounds thru the gun, only 3 malfunctions, 1 with golden saber 124 gr and 2 with Sig Sauer 147 gr

Good to hear it's working better now...

YUP constantly 4-6 in low at 10 yards

epk49 wrote:As I reported earlier, my R51 is shooting Winchester White Box 115gr FMJ low and to the left. But, that was with a two-hand hold. Today, I shot off of a sandbag at 15 yards.

First, for comparison, I shot my 1949 S&W K-38 Masterpiece (aka Pre-14) using 148 gr. wadcutters. Here my second group with that gun (better than first group):

http://peace.saumag.edu/faculty/kardas/Courses/38group.jpg

Next, I shot the R51 and was not able to hit the paper at all. All of the shots were low and left. So, I put a mark on the target (high and rightr) yielding these results:

http://peace.saumag.edu/faculty/kardas/Courses/9mmgroup.jpg

Went to my one of my local gun shops. They gave me a 5/64 hex key to loosen the rear sight. At home, I moved the rear sight to the right some. I'll see in the morning to see if that pulls the group right. I'll work on the low part of the aim later. I wonder if Remington supplies a lower front sight.

I shot my 638 S&W too (my usual daily carry), just to compare:

http://peace.saumag.edu/faculty/kardas/Courses/38groupsnub.jpg

Had the same problem, low and left. adjusted the rear sight and hitting center and low. Remington
needs to come out with a shorter front sight If I split the white dot on the front sight, the gun is
dead on. Other than that all goes bang as supposed to.

hubbard738 wrote:My R51 also shoots about 6 inches below the point of aim. I called Remington to try and buy a taller rear sight and they wanted me to send my gun back for repair. I told them it functioned fine but they wanted it back anyway because the said it should NOT be shooting low and something must be wrong with it. So I sent it to one of there service centers and them guy's shot it and agreed it was shooting much lower than the point of aim. They had it for 3 weeks and called Remington to see what they wanted to do about it and Remington didn't know what to tell them except to send it back to me and tell me that soon as they made a taller sight they would send it to me. So I got the gun back and it still hits 6 inches low at 15 yards. They were no help at all. I joined this group to see if others were having the same trouble. It seems there are.

Hubbard738,
I have noticed, and others did too, that the sights on the R51 appear to be set to Military hold.
Which means that the sights are set to hold over the bull's eye, not at the bottom of the bull.
If you google "military sight hold" you will see what I mean.