Hurryin' Hoosier wrote:I agree on the point about "trade-offs", JR. After all, how many people have put "idiot scratches" on their 1911s? The RM380 design (with its take-down pin) is just something a guy has to get used to and not be careless about. I, for one, think that it's a pretty clever set-up.

I would be one.

It's too bad that a lot seems to be made of the take-down pin on the RM380 and the possibility that it can fall out under certain circumstances. This is really not a new design; the take-down pin design has been around for over a decade (the Rohrbaugh used this same design) and was never a problem worthy of any mention.

The circumstances where the take-down pin can fall out are a very narrow set of conditions and things that don't happen with normal usage. For certain it can't fall out during firing (the slide moves too rapidly for it to happen). It's worth remembering that another pocket .380 pistol had take-down pin issues when it was first introduced but in its case it could (and often did) fall out during normal firing (search for Bodyguard 380 take down pin).

As an owner of a Rohrbaugh R9 for some years now, Back then I was drawn to the ergonomics and size of the R9 (and similarly to the RM380) and (in my case) the reliability also. So a week ago I picked up an RM380 at a local gun show and got out to shoot it Monday; here are some observations:

Preliminary examination:
The RM380 is comfortable in my hand and points well for me. I am skeptical of the changes that Remington made to the Rohrbaugh design though some criticized the Rohrbaugh heel magazine release and lack of a slide lock. I thought these were consistent with a small pistol designed to be easy to carry and simple; the more complex a device is, the more there is to go wrong with it. If I want speed reloads I'll probably be carrying an HK45C or HK-P30 or Glock 19 (or even a Glock 43), not an RM380.

The more I fiddled with it the more I started to accept the changes. The magazine release is effective and easy to get to without being likely to result in accidental release and I can actually get to it without significant changes to my normal strong-hand grip. I'd hate to have to use the slide lock to drop the slide as it's small (and "Glock like") and also recessed into the grip, but at least it does no harm and isn't likely to be accidentally engaged by a normal grip.

I learned how to deal with the take down years ago, so nothing new to me here. The recoil spring assembly is easier to deal with than the Rohrbaugh design which was hard to reassemble (and usually took a tool of some sort to compress the spring for reassembly). The trigger is pretty good; not quite the silky smoothness of the Rohrbaugh but not far off and not at all very different; heavy enough to feel safe and light enough to squeeze off a shot without affecting my aim.

The fit seems fine - clearance where it's needed and I was impressed at how solid the lockup is between the slide and the barrel. No sloppy machining I could find and the fit of the slide to the frame was good also even if a little bit loose. The finish is what I would consider acceptable - not quite great - but about what I would expect especially given the price point and not cause for any concern; the ejector was blackened but showed signs of flaking a little bit even before firing - but that's not something you see when assembled. The more I fiddled with the gun (including dry firing with snap-caps and a LaserLyte trainer) the more I liked it.

I tried clambering a variety of ammo - both FMJ and various hollow-point defense loads and all seemed likely to work with the exception of some 90gr Gold Dots. I've had problems with these Gold Dots in other .380 pistols - an ogive that seems to hang up during clambering and a large hollow-point that likes to nose dive into the feed ramp and I saw both problems on the RM380 unless I did a proper job of sling-slotting the slide. I earmarked some Gold Dots for a range trip just to see how bad they might be and I didn't have high expectations. I don't favor the Gold Dot in .380 anyway and wouldn't be disappointed if they didn't run well; my preferred carry round for .380 is something else.

The manual:
Yes - I really did read the owner's manual. Aside from all the expected safety advisories, I found it rather more useful than many. Not only did it show a parts list and description, it included interesting tidbits such as the proper screwdriver to use to remove the grip panels (Torx T-7), the proper procedure to use to remove and install the grips and the torque to tighten them to (5 to 8 in-pounds) when replacing them. These screws go into the aluminum frame and stripping them was a not-unheard of event on a Rohrbaugh so it was rewarding to see Remington taking steps to avoid that. Using Torx screws instead of Allen head screws is a BIG step in the right direction also - another change Remington made to the original design. On the subject of grip screws there's another subtle change that Remington made; the Rohrbaugh has two grip screws on each grip but the RM380 has two on the left grip and 3 on the right grip. This 3rd grip screw helps to keep all the fire control pieces in alignment (they are on the right side) and is (in my opinion) an improvement.

The range trip:
I took a box of PMC 90gr FMJ (the practice ammo I keep around for .380) and 3 types of defense ammo - the 90gr Gold Dots, some Hornady 90gr Critical Defense, and some Fiochi Extrema with 90gr XTP bullets (my primary choice for .380 carry) and headed off to a local range, though not one I'd shot at before. And there in lies one mistake I made that affected my perception of accuracy. The range I normally shoot at has an electronic target system where you can enter a distance and send the target out to precisely that distance - this range only had markings on the ceiling and you stop the target where you want it. The first marking is 15 (yards not feet) so while I normally shoot defensive pistol at 7 yards instead I ended up shooting at 15 yards without it really dawning on me that I was shooting at double the normal distance. I was initially a little disappointed at the groupings I was getting (or as the case may be NOT getting) and felt that throughout the entire session. Next time I'll make more certain of the distance and expect better results. I would say the accuracy I was seeing is certainly "minute of bad guy" and acceptable for a defensive pistol such as the RM380, but I'm not going to frame the target and hang it on my wall to admire.

I started with two magazines of the PMC FMJ and they ran without a hitch of any sort whatsoever. I then followed up with two magazines of the Gold Dots - not expecting much - and was pleasantly surprised when they also ran without any problems whatsoever. The same thing with both the Hornady Critical Defense and the Fiochi Extrema - all 4 types of ammo ran perfectly, the slide locked back on each empty magazine and the gun ran flawlessly with each ammo. I didn't notice differences in accuracy but I quickly put so many holes in the target I couldn't really tell. The good news is I was hitting the target even if not always the part I was aiming at.

Recoil was manageable / soft even; think Sig P238 or maybe even Glock 42 rather than Ruger LCP. I enjoyed the 70 or so rounds I put through the gun and would have shot another box of 50 if I had one with me - I WAS having fun!

I found I quite prefer the flat base magazine over the one with the pinky extension though I had thought this might go the other way; the flat base just seems to provide a more comfortable grip to me. What I also found is that with the pinky extension, the tighter I grip the gun the more it points low in my hand which sort of destroys the gun's natural tendency to shoot where I expect it to and - I think - why some of my shots hit lower than I thought I was aiming. I tried to order another flat base magazine but Remington's Customer Service told me that they don't (yet) have spare magazines available for parts orders - they are all going out with new guns; by the end of January they expect to have magazines available. Perhaps I should have asked January of what year but hope they mean 2016.

I also found the slide lock worked perfectly - at the range I liked it more than I did on the bench and while I don't see it as a necessity I do see it as a functioning design. One advantage of the slide lock is that I sometimes shoot at a range that requires the slide be locked open when the gun is not on the firing line and without a slide lock I have to explain to the RSO that I can't lock the slide back. I've never had a problem with the RSO once I showed him the pistol but with a functioning slide lock I don't have to explain anything no matter where I shoot.

Post range day cleanup:
After getting home I field stripped the RM380 and examined it pretty closely. I was looking for wear marks in places I didn't expect them to be - and found nothing unexpected - in fact virtually nothing at all. I was really surprised at how little soot / powder residue I found anywhere but (as expected) in the barrel. Other than a slight bit of soot on the feed ramp and extractor there was virtually nothing anywhere else and basically none in the frame itself or in the magazine well or firing mechanism. There was a small amount of metal flakes - some brass but mostly nickel because all the defense ammo I shot used nickel plated cases. No wear on the rails or slide - a slight polishing of the slide lock where the slide contacted it and a little bit of additional flaking of the black finish on the ejector but little (if any) more than what was already there before firing. A very very slight polishing of the hammer face. The trigger seems a bit smoother which was not unexpected. Virtually no wear appearing on the aluminum frame. I don't know as this is a gun that's going to go 90,000 rounds but it certainly seems ready to go a normal life span for such a pistol.

Overall I am very pleased with the RM380. As with almost all the other reports I've read on production guns, it's reliable and seems to feed and fire just about anything that anyone tries to feed it. I will probably put another 100 or so rounds through it and if they run as reliably as the initial range session it will probably go into a "carry rotation" for those times when something small and easily concealed in a pocket makes the difference between having a gun with me and not having one at all.

With the RM380 Remington has taken a design that worked, made some changes (magazine release and slide lock among others), addressed manufacturing costs (MIM parts instead of CNC machined billet parts) and made a gun that is 1/3 the cost of the design "DNA" without screwing anything up - the changes seem to work just fine.

Thanks JR for a very detailed review. It shows what others have said about the RM380 but elaborates on the features and operation.

Yes thanks for a very detailed review. Sounds decent overall. Prefer these compact models myself. Currently carrying a S&W CS-9 which I have been happy with but this new Rem. addition has caught my eye.

Tater wrote:I'm not sure I like the take down pin design. Not that I'd so much be worried about it falling out but it sure looks eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaasssssyyyyyy to lose.

Tell me about it!!! I lost mine almost 2 weeks ago while cleaning the gun. I call Remington to get one and was told it would be about 6 more months before parts would be available. WHAT!!!! So, I checked out Rohrbaugh and was able to purchase one of their pins. It's slightly larger (0.0015) so it should fit a bit tighter. (The Rohrbaugh owners said that their pins fit pretty snug.) I should have one by early next week.

BUT the kicker.....READ THE FRIGGIN' MANUAL! When I talked to the Rem Rep, I told him I needed the disassemble pin...you know, the one you use to field strip the gun. When he told me I couldn't get it for about 6 months he called it the "Frame Pin". Well in my research I noticed it was called a lot of things (like the "take down pin" that is referred to hear.) I checked the manual and NOT, it is the "Unlock Pin"!!!!! So I called Rem again and said I needed the Unlock Pin....what?!? Well after a few minutes the Rep came back and said they where back ordered and it would be about 2 weeks. (which seems pretty crazy for a stupid little pin). But anyhow, that beats 6 months.

Anyhow, long story short, the 1st Rep didn't get it right. I should of been more prepared but the Rep should of known better too.

As for the gun.....absolutely love it. It's the 1st gun that I routinely carry instead of just now and then. I'll be glad to resurect it from it's paperweight status! (And now I'll have plenty of spare UNLOCK pins LOL)

Welcome to the Remington Owners Forum Leonardo !!

Please introduce yourself to our community via the New Member Welcome Area...

Enjoy the forum.

So far I relly like the rm380, just put my second hundred rounds through with no problems. Like the feel in the hand with either flush or extended magazine. Recoil is mild and DAO trigger is fine even with the long pull. Took about 50 rounds to feel comfortable but now it pulls easy and smoothly. My problem has been putting the locking pin back in after cleaning. Very frustrating trying to get the pin through the opening. I know you are not supposed to touch the barrel while lining up the holes but even then it is not easy. Maybe someone out there has a tip.

Just called to find out when additional magazines will be available and they said they had no idea. Kind of sorry I bought one because they do not seem to care about repeat business. How can you sell a gun and have no idea when replacement parts will be available. What kind of inventory planning did they do? I really like the rm380 but what kind of service is this? They should at least be able to say when a user can buy parts.

If you are really worried about the unlock pin (take down pin, dis-assembly pin) falling out, get one for the Rohrbaugh R9. It fits just snug enough to make it so that even lightly oiled, you can't just shake it out. You need a something like a toothpick to get it out. Personally I prefer the ability to just shake it out. On the other hand, and this is just a thought....since it has no slop it won't get beat around and eventually damage the hole in the frame. That's likely not to happen, but it cant hurt.
Either way, when I get my pins from Rem I'll be swap my Rohrbaugh one for the Rem just for ease of cleaning.

Rohrbaugh R9 take down pin - diameter - .154", length - .617"

Remington RM380 pin - diameter - .1525 , length - .620"

bob wrote: My problem has been putting the locking pin back in after cleaning. Very frustrating trying to get the pin through the opening. I know you are not supposed to touch the barrel while lining up the holes but even then it is not easy. Maybe someone out there has a tip.

First, before removing the pin (while indexed for removal) notice the position of the barre. Wiggle it and you will see that it is somewhat loose.
When you go to reassemble, push down on the back of the barrel to release it and then replicate what you saw before removing the pin. You may need to wiggle the barrel a bit, but it will slide right in.

bob wrote:My problem has been putting the locking pin back in after cleaning. Very frustrating trying to get the pin through the opening. I know you are not supposed to touch the barrel while lining up the holes but even then it is not easy. Maybe someone out there has a tip.

I find a large part of this "trick" is how you hold the gun when trying to replace the pin (or remove it for that matter). I hold it the way shown in this image link:

http://s374.photobucket.com/user/JR956678/media/Rm380.jpeg.html

Once you can hold the slide retracted into the correct position with one hand the other can be used to jiggle the barrel into alignment and insert the pin.

Thank you both for the take down pin reassembly tips. Will try and hopefully I can get that pin back in with less effort. I can get the holes aligned but it seems the barrel moves just so slightly to block the pin from going in cleanly. I guess I will eventually get it right. Still love the way it handles.

Leonardo wrote:

Tater wrote:I'm not sure I like the take down pin design. Not that I'd so much be worried about it falling out but it sure looks eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaasssssyyyyyy to lose.

Tell me about it!!! I lost mine almost 2 weeks ago while cleaning the gun. I call Remington to get one and was told it would be about 6 more months before parts would be available. WHAT!!!! So, I checked out Rohrbaugh and was able to purchase one of their pins. It's slightly larger (0.0015) so it should fit a bit tighter. (The Rohrbaugh owners said that their pins fit pretty snug.) I should have one by early next week.

BUT the kicker.....READ THE FRIGGIN' MANUAL! When I talked to the Rem Rep, I told him I needed the disassemble pin...you know, the one you use to field strip the gun. When he told me I couldn't get it for about 6 months he called it the "Frame Pin". Well in my research I noticed it was called a lot of things (like the "take down pin" that is referred to hear.) I checked the manual and NOT, it is the "Unlock Pin"!!!!! So I called Rem again and said I needed the Unlock Pin....what?!? Well after a few minutes the Rep came back and said they where back ordered and it would be about 2 weeks. (which seems pretty crazy for a stupid little pin). But anyhow, that beats 6 months.

Anyhow, long story short, the 1st Rep didn't get it right. I should of been more prepared but the Rep should of known better too.

As for the gun.....absolutely love it. It's the 1st gun that I routinely carry instead of just now and then. I'll be glad to resurect it from it's paperweight status! (And now I'll have plenty of spare UNLOCK pins LOL)

OK I ordered the "unlock pins" on Feb 1 with up to two weeks back order. Got them today. That's 5 1/2 almost 6 weeks. Good thing I could get the Rohrbaugh pins in a week.

You can get additional mags here.

http://www.sentinelarmsusa.com/mag-rem- ... extension/