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1100 12 gauge action spring weight question

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:54 pm
I was hoping to ask if you have an 1100 semiauto 12 gauge, if there would be any way you could measure the pull weight of the action spring so I can get an idea of how heavy it was.

I have a Turkish import that has what I feel is too light of a spring. I have changed it to one that is 3 pounds heavier and it still cycles high and low brass perfectly, but I'm trying to find the heaviest spring weight that I can find to keep the bolt from battering the inside of the receiver as badly.

Thanks for the help.
When people ignorant of guns make gun laws, you end up with ignorant gun laws.
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.410
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:35 pm
Not very scientific, but I did some testing when repairing my Ithaca Model 51 by fitting various action springs and measuring the resistance in kilograms with a spring balance by supporting the gun muzzle down and hooking the spring balance (basically a digital luggage weight gauge) on the charging handle and pulling up.

I found that the original (weak) spring) measured 39kg, a replacement, correct weight spring from diamond gunsmiths measured 48kg and a new Remington 1187 spring measured 65kg.
I measured some others but they were not really relevant.

The other thing that I did was to buy new nylon buffers and as they are so rare, I made some duplicates and also experimented with rubber inserts which is what I am running at the moment without problems. The reason for this is that the model 51 has inherently weak carrier rails which can be fractured with the constant battering of cycling. (detailed on Ithacaowners.com under title UK51)

Hope this helps a little
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:09 pm
I've been looking for a buffer to fit that gun, but I am having no luck. It didn't come with one installed in it, and thus, why the rear of the bolt is really beating the crap out of the aluminum receiver.

I tried to convert the kg to pounds and I must've done it wrong. 65kg on the convertor that I was using said that was almost 150 pounds.

The original spring that came in mine came in at 12 pounds near the end of its' pull.

The newer spring that I put it in, came in at 15 pounds at the end of it's pull, so at least it is some extra resistance than it had before.
When people ignorant of guns make gun laws, you end up with ignorant gun laws.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:52 pm
The action springs - the ones in the buttstocks - are the same on the 12, 16, and 20 gauge Model 1100s and 11-87s. One kg force equals 2.2046 pounds force. Springs are normally rated by rate; i.e. so much force to compress the spring per unit of length of travel, for example 15 pounds per inch.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:31 am
I bow to your knowledge and experience Sir!, As I stated my testing was not scientific and the readings were taken with the trigger group removed so it was just the measured tension (weight) of the spring.

John A, you don't state the make of shotgun, I am guessing though that yours has the action spring in the stock a-la- Remington? There many Turkish guns over here (indeed I have one, an early Impala gas operated one from Istanbul Arms, which is a great gun) This one has one action spring around the mag tube to return the gas system and a smaller spring in the stock to return the bolt. There are no action bars as such and the gas piston is not attached to the bolt at all! Seems to work fine though on all loads that I have put through it. I believe that the lack of action bars permits loading the gun without pressing a 'gate release' and the gate/lifter is just like a pump. Picture below to show the main parts. I am still trying to locate a manual/schematic for it but no luck as yet, although I have been in touch with the factory and they have said that they will supply one in pdf format 'in due course'! The 'new' Impalas are apparently inertia operated and are being heavily marketed your side of the pond by Dickinsons I believe.

impala (4).JPG
impala (4).JPG (90.21 KiB) Viewed 551 times

impala (2).JPG
impala (2).JPG (179.33 KiB) Viewed 551 times
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:47 pm
Thank you for the reply.

The firearm is imported as an Emperor Arms MX5. I have seen a few different models of it actually. So, it's probably just some generic model designation.

The action spring of mine is similar to my Charles Daly (Akkar) Turkish import, but there are many differences in the two guns so I'm certain that they're not made by the same maker.

The action spring of these are under the forend.

The Emporer weighed in at 12 pounds, the Daly weighed in at 15 pounds, and which I left the 15 pound weight in it. I'm just trying to find an even heavier spring but am coming up empty.
When people ignorant of guns make gun laws, you end up with ignorant gun laws.
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