Jeff Quinn responds to comments posted on his Youtube video reviews of the R51.

Among other things he states:

"Obviously, Remington did ship out some pistols that do not work properly, and hopefully, they will get them repaired or replaced soon."

"I had a meeting last week with the Remington folks at their headquarters in North Carolina. They are aware of the problem and the damage to their reputation. They are working on a fix to make ALL of the production guns consistent, so that every R51 on the market is as good as it can be. They are not going to rush the problem guns back out until they have a permanent fix, not just a bandaid."

The video and comments section is located here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IQEAKGXKt8

After some consideration I see (what I view) as conflicting statements here. The statement (my emphasis on "some"):

"Obviously, Remington did ship out some pistols that do not work properly, and hopefully, they will get them repaired or replaced soon."

This would seem to indicate that a limited group of guns was impacted - it could further be assumed to imply that the majority of R51s don't have issues.

Then, in this statement we see a keyword all (Jeff's emphasis):

"I had a meeting last week with the Remington folks at their headquarters in North Carolina. They are aware of the problem and the damage to their reputation. They are working on a fix to make ALL of the production guns consistent, so that every R51 on the market is as good as it can be. They are not going to rush the problem guns back out until they have a permanent fix, not just a bandaid."

Applying some logic to the situation, if it were only a limited pool of faulty guns that shipped (and assuming the vast majority of others are fine - as seemingly implied in statement #1) it stands to reason there would not be a need for some sort of engineering of a "fix" to make "ALL" guns "consistent", and "so that every R51 on the market is as good as it can be."

Logic would dictate that the flawed guns could simply be repaired with non-faulty parts (which would presumably have to exist for the majority of non-faulty guns on the market to be assembled from) or simply be replaced (exchanged) with non-faulty guns.

Man, the sharks are in the water!

As I wrote on another forum, Remington REALLY needs to get out in front of this! Engaging in an information blackout only makes it look like Remington is trying to hide something and just makes customers more angry. As I also wrote, offering refunds is nice and all but it doesn't make customers not angry. They need to issue an official press release that describes, 1) what the problem are and what has caused them, 2) what they are doing to fix the causes, 3) how soon customers will have their guns back.

Maybe Mr. Quinn's statement here is a start but it's not enough and, at this point, almost anything might be too little, too late. But it will be worse if they continue this information blackout.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

What is the best number to call for an update on my gun that they have had for nearly 3months? I was just on hold for 30 minutes and still no real person. I sent my gun on 4-9 and have had zero contact I don't even know if they received it. I'm getting frustrated.

Trackercasey wrote:What is the best number to call for an update on my gun that they have had for nearly 3months? I was just on hold for 30 minutes and still no real person. I sent my gun on 4-9 and have had zero contact I don't even know if they received it. I'm getting frustrated.

Standard tech support number.

You should have received a UPS tracking number when you shipped so that you can trace route and confirm delivery.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

lklawson wrote:Engaging in an information blackout only makes it look like Remington is trying to hide something and just makes customers more angry. As I also wrote, offering refunds is nice and all but it doesn't make customers not angry. They need to issue an official press release that describes, 1) what the problem are and what has caused them, 2) what they are doing to fix the causes, 3) how soon customers will have their guns back.

I totally agree with this statement!

If, by taking extended time in an effort to nail a "fix", Remington hopes to garner goodwill with customers who are eventually totally satisfied with a working gun they are sadly wrong. *Communication* is the principal means for engendering good will with customers. People generally tolerate a lot if they feel that they are being kept in the loop. However, no amount of technical accuracy related to the fix will address the relationship aspect of this that being burnt by the present (non)response. There are really two different things that need to be addressed at this point - the physical repair of the firearm, and the *relationship" with the customer. If this was just a manufacturing oversight that could be turned around in days by replacing a non-spec part (or even entire gun) that would be one thing. To have peoples guns for months, with no apparent solution in sight, takes things to a different ball field where Remington owes people something more.

I don't think I'm too far off by saying that customers who spent their good, hard cash are OWED something more than simply a fixed gun many weeks after the fact. Remington can pay down this supplemental obligation cheaply, with communication at the front end ( or they can let it languish - possibly even ignore it - but that doesn't ever absolve that debt. If they don't satisfy the debt, they've very possibly lost direct customers, along with untold others who become aware of the issue.

Was talking to my daughter in Charlotte NC over the weekend about a number of things in the workplace and I used the example of Remington and Para with the roll out and issues of the R51. She knows someone who works in the Para facility and he told her that the workers there knew this thing would be a disaster. I hope to get to talk with the guy for a few specifics.

I do agree with the above comments about the lack of communication being the biggest problem. I want this gun to work, I really do. But after having some folks R51's for nearly three months they certainly should be on the way to at least identifying the problems. It would be nice to get a simple press release acknowledging the problem(s). The conversations and comments on the internet carry more weight than Remington knows.

445r51 wrote:

lklawson wrote:Engaging in an information blackout only makes it look like Remington is trying to hide something and just makes customers more angry. As I also wrote, offering refunds is nice and all but it doesn't make customers not angry. They need to issue an official press release that describes, 1) what the problem are and what has caused them, 2) what they are doing to fix the causes, 3) how soon customers will have their guns back.

I totally agree with this statement!

If, by taking extended time in an effort to nail a "fix", Remington hopes to garner goodwill with customers who are eventually totally satisfied with a working gun they are sadly wrong. *Communication* is the principal means for engendering good will with customers. People generally tolerate a lot if they feel that they are being kept in the loop. However, no amount of technical accuracy related to the fix will address the relationship aspect of this that being burnt by the present (non)response. There are really two different things that need to be addressed at this point - the physical repair of the firearm, and the *relationship" with the customer. If this was just a manufacturing oversight that could be turned around in days by replacing a non-spec part (or even entire gun) that would be one thing. To have peoples guns for months, with no apparent solution in sight, takes things to a different ball field where Remington owes people something more.

I don't think I'm too far off by saying that customers who spent their good, hard cash are OWED something more than simply a fixed gun many weeks after the fact. Remington can pay down this supplemental obligation cheaply, with communication at the front end ( or they can let it languish - possibly even ignore it - but that doesn't ever absolve that debt. If they don't satisfy the debt, they've very possibly lost direct customers, along with untold others who become aware of the issue.

I agree with you. Communication would have been the key to this situation. If Remington had been up front and openly communicating, I would not have given up and requested a refund. (Which has been approved, but so far I have not received the refund.) I really like the R51 and would like to have waited for the repairs/update, but since I was in the dark (I must be a mushroom because they keep me on the dark and feed me BS), I must move on. I have already replaced the gun with an XDs9 (and an XDs 45) and also a Ruger SR9c. I may cleanse my small inventory of all Remington products and not look back.

I think Remington knows that good communication helps, e.g. if they where making progress, but bad news would only make things worse. It is possible that they are no closer to a manufacturing solution then they where 3 months ago.

I believe I read on this forum that the r51 line was moving to the new plant. If that is the case there most likely will not be a solution until that move is complete. Would it help public good will if they told things like that and that it might take another 2 months to get up and running? (Please note this is pure speculation and is just to show that communication is not always best)

If Remington cannot figure out a way to simply tell the truth and assure all R51 owners of their commitment to resolve the issues they either do not have anyone in their company that can speak well enough or they just don't care about a few hundred or thousand unhappy customers. I for one prefer the plain truth, that would make me happy. My guess is, and it is just that, they have been ordered not to speak about the problems but to pacify folks, drag it out till they can re-group in their new facility in Alabama.

I know this has all turned to speculation but with dead silence from Remington what can you expect?

Jeff's review, in the video linked below, was the deciding factor in my R51 purchase. Just to be clear, I don't blame him a bit. The pistols he handled and fired shot as you can see in his video. We need to, "Keep the right onus in the right anus.", and that onus is on Remington, they are fumbling the R51.

For those that may not be aware, there is another Remington product issue with many 700 bolt guns. I am the 'lucky' owner of one of the recalled rifles. It's been sitting idle and unfired for a month waiting on return materials to be shipped form Remington. Apparently a number of those request disappeared and need to be recreated. If I sound frustrated, I am, I have two Remington products I cannot use. My excellent experience with my 1100 shotgun is keeping my hopes up for now, but the clock is ticking.

445r51 wrote:Jeff Quinn responds to comments posted on his Youtube video reviews of the R51.

Among other things he states:

"Obviously, Remington did ship out some pistols that do not work properly, and hopefully, they will get them repaired or replaced soon."

"I had a meeting last week with the Remington folks at their headquarters in North Carolina. They are aware of the problem and the damage to their reputation. They are working on a fix to make ALL of the production guns consistent, so that every R51 on the market is as good as it can be. They are not going to rush the problem guns back out until they have a permanent fix, not just a bandaid."

The video and comments section is located here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IQEAKGXKt8

This guy is a shill, as are all the gun mags. The guns they get to "test" have been thoroughly gone over by the manufacturer before they get to any "reviewer". How long do you think they would send him guns to test if he told the truth about some of the short comings? Let him go to a gun store and buy them off the shelf and test the same firearms that the public buys. I have never seen to this day, and I'm 67yrs old, a bad review in in any gun rag!!!

mardetcv66 wrote:This guy is a shill, as are all the gun mags. The guns they get to "test" have been thoroughly gone over by the manufacturer before they get to any "reviewer". How long do you think they would send him guns to test if he told the truth about some of the short comings? Let him go to a gun store and buy them off the shelf and test the same firearms that the public buys. I have never seen to this day, and I'm 67yrs old, a bad review in in any gun rag!!!

Blanket statements are always incorrect. If the Remington R51 review pistols were "thoroughly gone over" Remington sure did a crappy job because other reviewers had nothing but problems with the R51. Even if you go out and buy ten examples, it is not necessarily a representative sample that will reflect the quality level for an entire run of pistols. All they can do is test the gun they have and narrate a review. At least on a video like those done by Gunblast you can watch the gun being fired, see it dissembled and make your own decision. YouTube has a ton of negative reviews on the R51 and for just about any firearm you enjoy shooting you can find someone that says, "They suck!" or "I would never own a (fill in the blank)" Some is based on opinion, some fact and many are complete nonsense. A good example of nonsense? Some testers said the R51 had hard or strong recoil, as many problems as the R51 has, excessive recoil in not one of them. It's just the nature of gun testing by humans.

Most text gun reviews are, Good, Great or Fantastic. Translation, Fair, Good, Better, really bad stuff is not even reviewed.

You should have read Gun Test magazine back in the seventies, (or so), he used to buy each gun he tested and could be rather unkind to say the least. Here again, one pistol, good or bad, is not going to be representative of the entire run.

Lest you think me some young whippersnapper, I am less than five years behind you.

pinetreebbs wrote:

mardetcv66 wrote:This guy is a shill, as are all the gun mags. The guns they get to "test" have been thoroughly gone over by the manufacturer before they get to any "reviewer". How long do you think they would send him guns to test if he told the truth about some of the short comings? Let him go to a gun store and buy them off the shelf and test the same firearms that the public buys. I have never seen to this day, and I'm 67yrs old, a bad review in in any gun rag!!!

Blanket statements are always incorrect. If the Remington R51 review pistols were "thoroughly gone over" Remington sure did a crappy job because other reviewers had nothing but problems with the R51. Even if you go out and buy ten examples, it is not necessarily a representative sample that will reflect the quality level for an entire run of pistols. All they can do is test the gun they have and narrate a review. At least on a video like those done by Gunblast you can watch the gun being fired, see it dissembled and make your own decision. YouTube has a ton of negative reviews on the R51 and for just about any firearm you enjoy shooting you can find someone that says, "They suck!" or "I would never own a (fill in the blank)" Some is based on opinion, some fact and many are complete nonsense. A good example of nonsense? Some testers said the R51 had hard or strong recoil, as many problems as the R51 has, excessive recoil in not one of them. It's just the nature of gun testing by humans.

Most text gun reviews are, Good, Great or Fantastic. Translation, Fair, Good, Better, really bad stuff is not even reviewed.

You should have read Gun Test magazine back in the seventies, (or so), he used to buy each gun he tested and could be rather unkind to say the least. Here again, one pistol, good or bad, is not going to be representative of the entire run.

Lest you think me some young whippersnapper, I am less than five years behind you.

I've read gun test,they did not accept ads, so they had nothing to fear from the manufacturers. I stand by my statement, the guns you see getting bad reviews on you tube were not given to the testers by Remington, they were either purchased or in some cases the testers have their own store and they were stock. If you believe the R51s that Remington gave to Jeff Quinney, American Rifleman, Guns and Ammo weren't seriously "manicured" I have a nice bridge I'd like to sell you.

Remington R51 Review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTzS4sQfn4U

I didn't rewatch this video but I'm pretty sure this is a t&e gun sent from Remington and it still has problems.

(EDIT: Changed Link to original Video instead of a reTube)

mardetcv66 wrote:

pinetreebbs wrote:

mardetcv66 wrote:This guy is a shill, as are all the gun mags. The guns they get to "test" have been thoroughly gone over by the manufacturer before they get to any "reviewer". How long do you think they would send him guns to test if he told the truth about some of the short comings? Let him go to a gun store and buy them off the shelf and test the same firearms that the public buys. I have never seen to this day, and I'm 67yrs old, a bad review in in any gun rag!!!

Blanket statements are always incorrect. If the Remington R51 review pistols were "thoroughly gone over" Remington sure did a crappy job because other reviewers had nothing but problems with the R51. Even if you go out and buy ten examples, it is not necessarily a representative sample that will reflect the quality level for an entire run of pistols. All they can do is test the gun they have and narrate a review. At least on a video like those done by Gunblast you can watch the gun being fired, see it dissembled and make your own decision. YouTube has a ton of negative reviews on the R51 and for just about any firearm you enjoy shooting you can find someone that says, "They suck!" or "I would never own a (fill in the blank)" Some is based on opinion, some fact and many are complete nonsense. A good example of nonsense? Some testers said the R51 had hard or strong recoil, as many problems as the R51 has, excessive recoil in not one of them. It's just the nature of gun testing by humans.

Most text gun reviews are, Good, Great or Fantastic. Translation, Fair, Good, Better, really bad stuff is not even reviewed.

You should have read Gun Test magazine back in the seventies, (or so), he used to buy each gun he tested and could be rather unkind to say the least. Here again, one pistol, good or bad, is not going to be representative of the entire run.

Lest you think me some young whippersnapper, I am less than five years behind you.

I've read gun test,they did not accept ads, so they had nothing to fear from the manufacturers. I stand by my statement, the guns you see getting bad reviews on you tube were not given to the testers by Remington, they were either purchased or in some cases the testers have their own store and they were stock. If you believe the R51s that Remington gave to Jeff Quinney, American Rifleman, Guns and Ammo weren't seriously "manicured" I have a nice bridge I'd like to sell you.

OK, you agree you were mistaken when you called Jeff Bogg a shill. A shill is, "a person who publicizes or praises something or someone for reasons of self-interest, personal profit, or friendship or loyalty." Testing a gun provided by the manufacturer is not by itself, proof of anything.

Please, don't try to sell me a bridge you don't own and read what I said about the pistols being prepared by Remington. I said, " If the Remington R51 review pistols were "thoroughly gone over" Remington sure did a crappy job because other reviewers had nothing but problems with the R51." You are mistaking my sarcasm for disagreement. It is pretty likely that Remington prepared them, but we don't really know for certain. If we assume they did prepare them, they did a really crappy job or the design and manufacturing problems are so bad they showed thru anyway.

Wizardsblade wrote:Remington R51 Review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTzS4sQfn4U

I didn't rewatch this video but I'm pretty sure this is a t&e gun sent from Remington and it still has problems.

(EDIT: Changed Link to original Video instead of a reTube)

Thank you Wizardsblade I watched his retest of the Remington provided T&E pistol and it fails as well.

This was his original video evaluation of a pistol received in his shop:

http://youtu.be/jQ65wbjq6t0