remmy wrote:Also, how are you releasing the slide? Via slide release? Or pulling the slide to the rear all allowing to go forward, aka. "Slingshoting?" Technically the manual states that the slide (when locked to the rear) should be pulled and released to load the gun. I'm not saying I agree with that, but they do state it. I wonder if they didn't know there was an issue from the git-go, hence that instruction.

I doubt it. That advice is common for smaller automatics. The smaller dimensions and lighter slide mean that they rely much more heavily on the force of recoil or upon a full retraction and release to get the required energy to strip the round and go into battery.

You see it a lot.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Gimpsdad wrote:I was really hoping this would be the weapon for her to carry.

It may very well be. It appears that the vast majority seem to be working just fine. Web forums and web based "reviews' tend to skew the perceived percentage of problems.

People are simply more likely to post to a forum asking for help with a problem than to post with a report of perfect function. People are more likely to complain than to praise. Praises are usually kept to themselves, while complaints are shouted from the mountaintops. They're not bad people or someone with an ax to grind usually. That's just human nature.

Again, my particular gun came off the assembly line with 1,100+ other guns in front of it. I'm here reporting my results but where are the thousand before me?

Most of these guns are probably good. But it is a brand new design so expect there to be some bugs to shake out of v1.0.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

I really appreciate all the input. I guess its like they say about buying a redesigned car - wait a model year for the bugs to get worked out. I thought this would be a great gun for my wife because of the internal design. As I understand it (feel free to correct me if I'm not getting it - just use small words), the fixed barrel lessens the recoil and assists in a second shot being on target. I prefer she had a 9mm over a .380, but any bullet put in the right spot will do the job. I figured the design would allow the wife to have a gun with a little more punch if she needed it. Myself, I'm comfortable with the 1911 and the .45ACP, but it's pretty hard for her to pull the slide to chamber a round. Plus the recoil would probably make a second shot damn near impossible for her to hit anything less than a battleship.

You have all given me a lot to think about. lk, your comments are food for thought. Assuming that your problems are the only one of 1100, that's a pretty good success rate. Something like .0001% error rate if my math is close. Of course, with the intended purpose of the gun, is that really good enough? I don't know - something I'll have to think about a while. Meanwhile please keep posting updates as I really am interested and for some reason really like what I see and what I understand about this gun.

Well I went to the indoor range yesterday and put some American Eagle through it. Had the same FTE issues as with the Remington UMC's in the first 50 rounds.

To top it off the rear sight started walking to the left as well. I'm sure I could fix it with some loctite, regardless I'm going to take advantage of the warranty and go ahead and send it in.

Looks like we've had quite a few had back for warranty work! Hopefully they'll come back in good working order.

Another one belly up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvEAr9TJ51M

So one positive I mentioned before that my slide did smooth out overall. However it seems to drag or catch somewhat when it hits the knurled section of the barrel. Does anyones R51 seem to do this if you slowly work the slide over the knurls or "threads". I'm calling Remington tomorrow to address the other issues. Noticed more negative reviews online over the weekend, enough that you cant ignore. Hope Remington notices and addresses these issues, I'm really trying to love this thing.

Was able to put 4 more mags through my R51 yesterday. Only one failure to return to battery. Other than that all OK. Slide is a little easier to pull than when new. I've used the Mil-Comm grease.

Mine shoots a little to the right but, unlike other reports, my rear sight would not drift. May need a sight tool for this one.

My experience so far is that of a new designed gun going through the break-in period. For comparison, I also put 100 trouble free rounds through my brand new Canik Stingray-C. New gun with a proven,CZ, design.

lincen,

It's good to hear your R51 is working and getting a break in.

ok just shot around 50-65 rds just now. Heres what happened, I could always fire the first round, then at least one or two rounds in the mag would load but when I went to pull the trigger....nothing. Its like the trigger isn't resetting, it appears it makes complete battery. when I would get nothing I would pull the trigger again and it would fire, other times it just wouldn't shoot so I would have the jack that round out and continue.....return box to Remington will be here in a week.

remmy wrote:ok just shot around 50-65 rds just now. Heres what happened, I could always fire the first round, then at least one or two rounds in the mag would load but when I went to pull the trigger....nothing. Its like the trigger isn't resetting, it appears it makes complete battery. when I would get nothing I would pull the trigger again and it would fire, other times it just wouldn't shoot so I would have the jack that round out and continue.....return box to Remington will be here in a week.

Disregard the instructions Remington sends with the return mailer. Do not pack it in the mailer. Take your original box with you to your nearest UPS Customer service location and prepaid label and papers. Not a UPS store but an actual HUB with a customer service annex. No Live ammo or expended ammo let them pack it. If you follow Remington's instructions UPS will only open it up and check if the gun is loaded. Do make sure you do not send in a magazine and expect to get it back.

Interesting...the guy at Remington told me to make sure both magazines are in the box.

draidt wrote:Disregard the instructions Remington sends with the return mailer. Do not pack it in the mailer. Take your original box with you to your nearest UPS Customer service location and prepaid label and papers. Not a UPS store but an actual HUB with a customer service annex. No Live ammo or expended ammo let them pack it. If you follow Remington's instructions UPS will only open it up and check if the gun is loaded. Do make sure you do not send in a magazine and expect to get it back.

How odd. My Remington technician specifically told me to include one of my magazines.

I did, however, include a detailed write up of the issue and an itemized packing list of contents.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Has anyone taken it upon themselves to 'smooth off' any edges with a file, dremel, etc? I'm just curious. I was looking over my gun closely before shipping it off and the edge of the feed ramp on the barrel has a major burr or gouge rather, not sure how to describe it exactly, wish I could post a pic of this one. Not sure how that got by me before now. That's maybe why my spent casings have marks on them, never taken the time to investigate that until tonight. Since I'm sending it in I wont 'touch it up' in fear Remington will see it and void any warranty As a side note the overall internal parts of the gun do have some pretty pathetic machine marks but I believe that's already been addressed. That's all for now....

waldengr wrote:

soccerguy83 wrote:Yes it is a bit alarming, as well as the slide bite/safety bite.

found one at gander mountain today. not so good...
1. appearance is really bland, finsih texture/color not anything like pics, drawings and advertisements
2. slide bite avoidance requires not a natural high grip, but a grip that does not cover any portion of the lower 'bob tail' (which doesn't actually exist). had no problem with proper grip myself, but can see why people are reporting slide bite
3. the grip safety is not the same as a 1911...at all. the safety is the full length of the back strap, and one must capture the pistol in the exact way required to fully depress the grip safety. noted the difficulty quickly as the grip i use for 1911, bersa, sig does not work. had to move the hand slightly to the left (right handed) in order to fully depress the safety. not a new skill i want to acquire when moving between different makes and calibres.
4. the slide was really gritty, and seemed to require a double pull to completly rack the pistol. may have been due to not enough customers playing with the new toy, but none of my other pistols had such slide resistance out of the box
5. the trigger pull is longer than a 1911, but shorter than any DA i have handled. clean break. reset is not easy to detect, so the trigger probably needs to come all the way back to reset, before making a follow-up pull.
6. the sights were the easiest/quickest to bring to bear of any pistol i own or have played with at the LGS. the smooth back and straight front are good for removing the pistol from concealment and using a watchband, belt or table to cock if the weak hand is disabled.
7 despite the 'double action' movement required to rack the slide, the effort was minimal, and i was able to hold the slide with one hand and push the grip with my index finger to fully rack the slide. clearing any jam should be very easy for everyone

did not take the pistol to a range; did not buy. the thing just did not feel like a piece that had a natural home in my hand.

cheers.

UPDATE: 04Mar14
returned to gander and found the pistol still in the case. HOWEVER, the slide was much better (guess about a thousand pulls had been done since my first visit). HOWEVER, nothing compared to MP9, Sig whatever, EMP 3.0. trigger did not improve. neither did the appearance (has no matte gloss highlights like the pictures; not a function thing, but appearance sells the unit, right?). just couldn't part with the $$ to find-out how the r-51 performs at the range. really wanted to grab it and go, but still not a natural fit for med hands.

cheers, ya'll

I stopped at the Gander Mountain in Kingston, NY today, they had one in the display case. I have wanted to get my hands on one since I first saw the video on the Remington website. Well as it so happens when the salesman took it out of the case and attempted to open the slide it wouldn't open, no matter what he attempted he could not rack the slide open. Tried dropping the magazine, tried reinserting the magazine, tried pulling, tried pushing, nothing worked. It was taken to the Gander gunsmith and he was unable to resolve it either.
The salesman told me that they had the same issue with the gun the day before but not as bad, guess I'll take that off my wish list till Remington works out the kinks in a few years.
So now I'm looking at the Smith & Wesson Shield instead.....

Just picked up Remington R51 on Tuesday. Have not been able to get it to the range.

First impressions:

Feels really good in the hand and points naturally. With grip panels with a little palm swell, it would fit my hand as well if not better than my BHP and for me, that is saying a lot.

Sights are tight. At least, they do not move under finger pressure. Very visible and easy to pick up.

Slide is tight and a bit rough. Yes, it is hard to rack. Is a lot easier if the grip safety is fully depressed and even easier if the trigger is held back while racking. Then release the trigger so it will reset. Slde doesn't hang or remain open or even seem to want to. Return to battery is strong. After stripping, cleaning and regreasing, including the rails which did not appear to be greased initially, slide is smoother.

Trigger has some side to side play but it doesn't seem to have any detrimental effect. Pull is crisp with about 1/8" take up and a clean break around 5-5.5#. i don't know why the side wobble is there. It feels like the pin hole is oversize for the pin. Maybe a bushing would help.

Grip safey is not stiff. Disengages with noticable pressure. There is an audible click but it is not loud. It offers enough resistance to prevent inadvertent depression but not enough to interfere with functioning. Anyone using a grip with push-pull tension should have no problem with the safety. Using a thumbs forward grip with side to side tension may result in erratic depression of the grip safety. It may take concious effort to remember to depress it.

The overall feel is a bit rough, but is about what I would expect from newly machined parts with a matte finish on the bearing surfaces. Should smooth out with use.

Field Strip

No issues field stripping except the end of the slide stop pin is recessed in the frame and tool of some kind is required to get the pin slide stop out—I used the corner of the mag floor plate. Worked just like the videos and the manual, once I got the hang of holding the slide in the right position with the take down notch aligned properly and then turning it over so I could see the SS pin to push it out.

A Look inside.

The breech block does not have any rough spots on any bearing surface. In fact, the camming surfaces appear to have been polished.

The gouges in the frame reported by Tactical Existence on YouTube are not present but I haven't been to the range yet. The "gouge" points are the surfaces that cam the breechblock. The finish is worn off at these points from hand cycling the action, but there does not appear to be any deformation of the metal.

There are no machined groves in the barrel area of the slide as in the TE video. Barrel and chamber look smooth and free of burrs and machine marks.

Remington says that any disassembly/stripping beyond feidl stripping should be don by factory techs. Looking into the frame it is easy to see why.

For one thing, the internals are fairly inaccesable, and the sear pin, trigger pivot pin, hammer pin and upper saftey pin (my names) all hold multiple parts in place, which includes springs that are saddled around other parts. Slave pins will absolutely be required for the sear and trigger and probably the hammer and safety which can't be easily seen with the grip safety in place. I wish I could find a schematic.

The trigger assembly is attached to a stirrup (like a 1911 or the 51) which may be further attached to the sear or safety assemblies (it extends into an obscured space and can't bee seen) I would like to try to put a bushing in the trigger pivot hole to take out as much of the wobble as possible, but I'm not sure I can get the trigger assembly out. I am sure I would need a slave pin (or the bushing) to put it back in, and if I can't get it out, I can't install the slave pin to get it back in. Fortunately, the wobble is the only thing about the trigger that is objectionable enough to require attention.

Dimensions (measured)

Weight w/empty mag; 22.3 OZ.
Weight w/o mag: 20.6 oz.

Length (Diagonal dimension-base of grip to muzzle): 202mm / 7.95"
Length (straigt line Muzzle to base of grip line): 175mm / 6.89
Length (Muzzle to end of slide): 172mm / 6.77"
Height (base of grip to top of sight): 116mm / 4.57"
Mag well width: 15.4mm / 0.606"
Mag well length: 36.9mm / 1.45"
Magazine width: 15.1mm / 0.59
Magazine length: 33.2mm / 1.31"
Grip Height BackStrap: 78.9mm / 3.10"
Grip Height FrontStrap: 63.5mm / 2.50"
Grip Length: 52mm / 2.05"
Grip Width: 25mm / 0.98"
Pull: 75.2mm / 2.96"
Front of Trigger Guard to Muzzle: 45mm / 1.77"
Inside Trigger Guard Height: 23.7mm / 0.93"
Inside Trigger Guard trigger to front: 25.3mm / 0.996"
Barrel (breech face to muzzle 84.6mm / 3.33"
Barrel (case base to muzzle 87.7mm / 3.45"
Sight radius 116.75mm / 4.6"
Sight height (above bore center): 17.78mm / 0.7"

Headspace/Firing Out of Battery (FOOB)/Fail to Return To Battery (FRTB)

I seen reports and several vids of Failure to return to battery and firing out of battery. I haven't been to the range with mine yet, but:

Most FRTBs were reported on the first round from the mag. I loaded up a mag of dummy rounds I made up using MBC 9Cone and the only way the first round created a FRTB was if I rode the slide down. Releasing the slide from lock and letting it drop chambered the rounds every time. So, I decided to test further with other rounds. I had some other dummys made up for plunk testing my BHP. These would not fully chamber. In fact, the bullet was jammed on the lands with the slide clearly out of battery. I put the rear sight on the end of a piece of 2x4 and leaned on it to eject the round. It ejected the case leaving the bullet stuck in the barrel and I had to tap it out with a rod.

I then plunked an empty case, a Federal 115g FMJ, and a Remingtion 147g Golden Sabre and an older dummy with a differnt lead cone bullet. and took measurements.

Except for the initial dummys which I had intentionally seated deep and the empty case, all failed to fully chamber, and the bullets had clearly engraved on the lands. The humber below reflect the amoung of case exposed when chambered and the amount in excess of the empty case.

Empty Case: 0.120 (0.000)
9Cone Dummy #1: 0.120 (0.000)
9COne Dummy #2: 0.186 (0.066)
Lead Cone Dummy: 0.150 (0.030)
Federal FMJ: 0.141 (0.021)
Rem GS: 0.124 (0.004)
Win ST 0.120 (0.000)

Having the bullets deeply engraved in the lands is going to raise pressures. and if the gun oi out of battery as well, it is not a good situation. Before I go to the range, I may load up some minimum loads of varying OALs.

Obviously I am going to have to seat deeper when reloading for the R51 than I have been doing for my BHP. And I think the bullet diameter and shape and OAL of factory loads may be critical. In one of the vids, from either RyeonHam or Tactical Existence, he had FOOBs and FRTBs with Cor-Bon and Speer Gold Dots but no problems with Remington FMJ. Somehow, I have the feeling that Remington's new Ultimate Defense will work as well.

I slugged the barrel (since I already had bullet stuck in it) with the following results:

Slug diameter: 0.3565
Lands: 0.3460
Grooves: 0.3560

Diameter of bullets tested:

9 Cone: 0.3565
FedFMJ: 0.3550
Rem GS: 0.3470
Win ST: 0.3510

The Rem GS and Win ST are apparently close enoughto the land diameter that they do not jam on the lands before fully chambering. The lead 9Cone and the Fed FMJ are closer to the groove diameter so they do jam on the lands.

I have seen reports online of Cor-Bon and Speer Gold Dot failing to fully chamber, and Remington FMJ chambering peoperly. I have seen no reports of bulging case or bulging primers confirmed to be associated with fully chambered rounds.

JRH6856- Great review and I cant wait to hear how the range fairs. would you mind sharing what range your serial number is?

Wizardsblade: SN is 0006xxx

One more note: Looking at the chamber, it is a really dull finish that I would almost call matte. Definte contrast to the bright bore. Could contribute to stuck/sticky cases at higher pressures which could result in bulged primers in a Pedersen action.

Range day is Monday.

Took my R51 out for the fourth time yesterday. Went through 4 magazines with no problem. Was shooting other 9mm handguns and could see that slight primer bulge that has been mentioned was only on the rounds fired from the R51. Only about 300 rounds through it now but seems to be doing fine.

Still hard to believe that Remington has nothing on there website, other than advertisements, for the R51. There is no warranty info on the pull down menu or any documents to download. I filled out my warranty form online and even said I would accept emails about other products and have not received anything. It probably does not even work properly. Seems to be rash of failed websites lately.

Would really like to know, by way of a confirmation email, that my info was received. It must be a mad house over there.

lincen wrote:Took my R51 out for the fourth time yesterday. Went through 4 magazines with no problem. Was shooting other 9mm handguns and could see that slight primer bulge that has been mentioned was only on the rounds fired from the R51. Only about 300 rounds through it now but seems to be doing fine.

Still hard to believe that Remington has nothing on there website, other than advertisements, for the R51. There is no warranty info on the pull down menu or any documents to download. I filled out my warranty form online and even said I would accept emails about other products and have not received anything. It probably does not even work properly. Seems to be rash of failed websites lately.

Would really like to know, by way of a confirmation email, that my info was received. It must be a mad house over there.

I scanned to PDF my personal copy of the R51 Owner's Manual. Linked in a thread lower on page.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Another sterling review. When will the recall happen ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTzS4sQ ... ploademail

Have had mine a few weeks now. Put 100 rounds threw it two different times now, so far just the issue of battery two or three time. With only six rounds loaded have not had that issue. Will keep shooting and post any issues I have.
Feel like I'm just waiting for it to fail. Time will tell.

I just got back from my Vegas trip and now I'll get back to my R51 issues. My 1st one, serial 00024XX had numerous failures as I mentioned on my March 21st and earlier posts. I fired it right out of the box without cleaning & re-lubing. I did inspect for any milling or machining shavings, etc. before that though. I cleaned it thoroughly after that initial couple of hundred rounds or so. I'll state the lube I used after I get my range results this evening or tomorrow. My 2nd R51, serial 00034XX, is still un-fired, un-cleaned, un-inspected, and still in the box. I anticipate one of these two R51s will end up back at Remington. The other will go to my "High Standard" man at their factory for an assessment and tuning or modification. I will report back tomorrow or Wednesday. Of course, I'm going to fire a hundred rounds or so of .380 in my 95 year old Model 51. No better comparison tool than that, since it is the predecessor of the new R51. So far, the old 51 has never had a failure. I'm hoping the R51 program ends up at least 95% of that or better once the bugs have been identified & corrected. Don't give up on Remington yet guys & gals. They have some catching up to do.

draidt wrote:Another sterling review. When will the recall happen ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTzS4sQ ... ploademail

I'll just say this about that:

Rough slide - Don't try to rack the slide without depressing the grip safety. After 200-300 rounds it really smoothed out for me.

Trigger reset- trigger rest is way overhyped. I don't plan to shoot bowling pins with a SD weapon and shooting pins is about the only time shooting from reset is useful.

Trigger side wobble - Can probably be fixed with a bushing in the pivot hole, but if you are pushing it to the side, you need to work on your trigger technique. The trigger should move front to rear, so should your finger. Don't push to the side, the trigger won't move to the side. (But I concur that it probably shouldn't anyway.)

Bulged brass casing - back up and notice when the round was chambered, he dropped the slide with by releasing the slide stop. The manual clearly says to slingshot (pull back and release) the slide. Even though he tapped the tail of the slide, the pistol was out of battery because the rim was in front of the extractor (that's why it didn't extract). The bulge is there because when in batterly, a bit of the case is unsupported over the feed ramp. (think Glock and 40S&W). When OOB, this is exposed even more. But even out of battery, with the Pedersen action, the breedh is still locked. Just the way the action works, it is possiuble to lock the breech out of battery and safely fire the pistol.

FTF nose down into ramp - I had this with one magazine. The other functionend fine with the same ammo.Most of the time, slapping the floor plate harred the round home. When that didn;t work, I found that the bad mag had a sticky follower and the follower itself nosedived and jammed. When this happend, the nose of the bullet fammed under the front lip of the mag. Some dry silicone cleard it up.

Double feed - Haven't seen that one.

Misfire - IF the pistol is too far OOB when you pull the trigger, the hammer hits the slide. This may drive the slide forward and as the hammer follows it is stopped at half-cock. If you pull the trigger again at this point, the sear may lock the hammer requireing a really forceful racking of the slide while depressing the grip safety.

HINT: If you are worried about the pistol blowing up in your hand, at least put on some gloves. But I have to wonder what kind of idiot would continue to shoot a pistol while saying he was afraid it would blow up.

When removing the barrel, pull the barrel to the rear. Then push the bushing forward until it reaches the notch. While holding the bushing (thorugh the ejection port, push the baarrel forward and tilt the busing and barrel up. Then pull the barrel out to the rear. I see he finally eventually figured it out.

You can't reintroduce a Pedersen action gun and change the action to a Browning action. It wouldn't be a reintroduction, it would be a new gun.

The Pedersen impeded blow-back action is sound, but it is very different from anything most of us have seen. It requires a change in thinking.

The breechblock locks the breech, but it only actually locks the breech when out of battery. Think about that. With the slide fully home, and the pistol in battery, the breechblock is floating. When recoil drives the slide and block the to the rear, the block is stopped by the frame. afer about 0.10" It is at this point that the breech is locked.

The chamber is tight, and there is no throat. The lands start right at the shoulder where the casemouth headspaces. If the bullet is seated out too far, (even sligthly), the bullet stops on the lands before the cartridge is fully chambered. I had this happen quite a bit with American Eagle. It didn't happen with Remingtion-UMC. Even so, the pistol fired safely because the breech was locked.

Probably no recall, unless Remington decides to add some throat to the barrel and hopefully polish the chamber. That would resolve a lot of the problems.

Forget the fact its a new model, seeing that excuse played out is like beating a dead horse. Looking back, if I had the chance to break the gun down and look at the internal parts I probably would of walked away, also one technically shouldn't have to shoot a gun several hundred times just to get the slide to operate smoothly for starters. Looks like they look took a class of jr. high kids and told them to machine some parts. I have never seen such poor work on any gun, rifle, shotgun, etc from any well known company. Some guys can make excuses for Remington all they want, but lets not forget this is what they DO for a living, make guns, that's it. If what I see in my R51 is suppose to be done by a professional....then that's pretty sad. I know that all sounds harsh but one of my first post says I would report on everything I find good or bad and I wouldn't sugar coat anything, well i'm not....just the facts on what I see and the bad out weights the good unfortunately. A mentioned in another thread, this particular R51 has to go (serial#00017XXXR51) and I will revisit the idea of buying another one in a few years if Remington can get their act together on this one. But right now I need a reliable ccw I can trust my life with.